Ukraine v Russia II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Apr 20, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There were many factors. The war in Afghanistan, obviously the one you mention, (the pressure of the Cold War in keeping up with the West), the social pressures from the Russian people becoming increasingly more aware of the outside world, the economic pressures based on failed marxist policies and corruption, the pressures from the republics that didn't want to be Soviet (Baltic states, Ukraine, Chechnya etc,) and of the client states who didn't want to be client states (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania etc.). Some of those factors, and in particular the military and economic ones, are just as relevant today for Russia.
     
    marek and Chesco United repped this.
  2. Indeed and the bordering non-Western European countries should take this opportunity of the weakend Rvssia to grab the territories with all the minerals and the ones being under authoritarian Pootin supported rule should take the chance to get rid of them.
    We should be actively stirring things up on the Rvssian borders to make them either weaken their efforts in the Ukraine or losing territories they actually can't afford to lose.
     
  3. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    A close friend of ours' family fled Pinochet's Chile. First to Spain, then to the US. She never really likes to talk about it. Must have been very painful.

    This guy's family also. He just hosted SNL and mentioned it in his monologue.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Weiss's podcast has some interesting indepth interviews

    I caught up with one where they looked at the China angle. According to some sources, China has hung Russia out to dry. China basically has no interest in the outcome of the conflict, except they do not want nukes under any circumstances. Putin seems to have badly miscalculated on that relationship.
     
    The Irish Rover repped this.
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That assessment makes no sense. If that was true, what's this about then?
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-aids-russias-war-in-ukraine-trade-data-shows-11675466360 upload_2023-2-5_16-29-59.png

    China knows that they are next after Russia. Here's an uncomfortable truth : China won't allow Russia to lose in Ukraine.
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    What else can the west throw at them?

    I think we're moving the goal posts. The initial objectives were to crash their economy, reduce the "Ruble to rubble" and stop their ability to wage war. In that regard, the sanctions aren't working and any serious economist are saying the same

    Are they affecting Russia's overall revenues? Of course they are but not to the point of achieving the goals we set. Worst, it embolden Global South nations to go their own way and seek to reduce their reliance on the Western financial system (or try to exit it) and exit the USD.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    :ROFLMAO:
     
    rslfanboy and Dage repped this.
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Not sure its just the global south that aren't capable of criticle thinking.
     
  9. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I had neighbors from Chile in my childhood. I presume that they were refugees from the Pinochet regime.
     
  10. Dage repped this.
  11. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    So what exactly do you think the West's strategy should be here?
     
  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Projecting much? Russia losing in Ukraine is in China’s best interest as it turns Russia into a secondary player and subservient to China. Given how resource rich Russia is and how resource poor China is, having a subservient Russia means China can start developing land connections between Russia and China and eliminate their biggest national security weakness… That being that they are easily cut-off from resources because they ship everything into their country through the S China Sea that US allies control the access to.
     
  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #7288 Robert Borden, Feb 5, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2023
    No, the next step after providing parts for Russia's arm manufacturing needs would be for China to start using theirs and send weapons if NATO were to step in in my opinion

    Or something like this
    Moscow and Tehran are moving ahead with plans to build a new factory in Russia that could make at least 6,000 drones
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/moscow...cility-in-russia-11675609087?mod=hp_lead_pos8
     
  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Hard diplomacy reset and get more of the Global South to get along with the sanctions, not sending Yellen or diplomats and use threats.

    What's been made painfully obvious is that the West ability to paralyze a countries economy is somewhat proportional to how many global south nations you can get on board. China and Russia did sanction the likes of Iran and North Korea at some point.

    Or I could be wrong and we keep trying to add more layers of sanctions like nuclear and other commodities but gotta be careful to drag Europe along with them
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    China has demonstrated tons of patience and their political structures aren't tied to "mandates" and having the next election in mind.

    You're not wrong "long term" but short to medium term, China needs Russia's resources and military especially in the eventuality of a war against the US.
     
  16. You realize China is dependent on Dutch ASML machines to produce chips and are on the edge of being denied the acquisition of the Deep UV machines, the next best level machines available in the world (the best machines are the Extreme UV machines of ASML, China isnot allowed to buy). So it sure as hell is the most brilliant strategic move to send weapons to a country that invaded and brought war into the European continent.
    If you think that will happen, I suggest you buy asap anything you need that has advanced chips in it, like a new smartphone or a new tv etc., because China willnot be able to produce those chips needed for western consumer products if that what you say happens.
     
  17. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    We may have already discussed this so apologies if I missed it…but can someone explain to me the strategic importance of Bahkmut?
     
  18. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I like to think that my ex is a Putinista.
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is mostly symbolic.
     
    Boandlkramer repped this.
  20. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    For Ukraine? It's part of Ukraine. That's enough. You can't just say "this part is hard to hold so we will back up" because Russia will move up and just make a new attack on the new front and you get hard fighting all over again. Eventually you run out of places to retreat to.

    Bahkmut has a slight elevation advantage over the local terrain, and if you retreat from there they will have a elevation disadvantage at all points back to the Dnipro. This affects things like artillery range. But it's not a big amount.

    For Russia? You can't take Kramatorsk and Sloviansk without taking Bahkmut and they want to take Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They’ll be fine as long as they don’t invade Taiwan.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    If this is a parody?
     
    waitforit repped this.
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    In any event Russia and China are both nuclear nations. Sure Russia can lose the territory it stole in Ukraine - but that is it. There is no way either Russia or China can be 'next'
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It has none.

    For Putin it seems to be mostly symbolic - he is on the 'offensive' and as @spejic points out, the road to Kramatorsk and Sloviansk lies through Bahkmut. But the problem is he doesn't have the other arm of the offensive since he lost critical territory during Ukraine's Kharkiv offensive.

    For Ukraine - there is nothing really better to do. They have to defend the front somewhere, so it might as well be at Bahkmut.
     
  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ehhhhh. This was true before the Kharkiv counteroffensive… Bakhmut falls and the Ukrainians will have problems holding Siversk and if Siversk falls, the flank of the Ukrainians pushing in Kreminna is exposed and, most likely, has to retreat.
     
    ChrisSSBB repped this.

Share This Page