Giovanni “Gio” Reyna national team discussion (from YA)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gogorath, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    To me it looks like someone who doesn’t value the national team.
     
  2. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you add just a little more context maybe that does make sense? For example, did Terzic tell Reyna that he would have a very limited role for Dortmund?

    Again:

    It just shows the huge difference in man management between our nepotism potato who was average in MLS Berhalter and a competent and successful coach like Terzic..

    -Gregg told Reyna before the WC that he would play a limited role, he sulked and was a problem and the subsequent drama has been a complete clusterf**k for US Soccer.

    -Terzic said he's using Reyna as a super sub because he's not 100% yet, and he's looked happy while scoring 3 goals in 68 minutes while Dortmund keeps winning games.


    Why isn't Reyna "sulking" at Dortmund, despite getting "sub minutes"? Could it be that Terzic didn't tell him that he would have a limited role?

    Waiting to be told by the experts why this isn't relevant....
     
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  3. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Maybe Gregg should have just lied to him and his parents as he manipulated them out of the picture.

    “Hey Gio, team activities start at 8AM in the lobby” (actually started at 7AM on the field).
     
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that what Terzic is doing?
    Or just a fantasy of yours?
     
  5. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Terzic is driving the car that Gregg replaced the broken transmission in.
     
  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like the car was running just fine under Terzic before the mechanic ever started tinkering (setting off a cascade of events that turned the garage into a complete sh*tshow with investigations into domestic abuse and higher ups scurrying away like rats)... maybe you're one of those people who doesn't know much about cars and gets ripped off by an unethical mechanic?
     
  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    who cares about the three months before? he was playing and producing in the month and half prior to the world cup and was on the world cup roster so what are you talking about too late?

    of course weah had won a spot already- that doesnt have anything to do with your trolling, bullshit lies.

    weah isnt the get out of berhalter-propaganda card you think it is, cause history- unfortunately for your dumbass case- doesnt need to be rewritten to show that reyna was played behind jordan morris and kellyn acosta. i wish that was rewritten.

    if you think it was playing behind pulisic, or mckennie or even weah that bothered gio youre out of your damn mind.
     
  8. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazing that a mediocre potato with zero charisma somehow has a personality cult... makes the people who still defend snake oil salesman Klinsy seem almost sane (he may be utterly useless but at least he isn't duller than dishwater)... almost!
     
  9. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    He was obviously playing behind Pulisic and Weah. He got moved out of the rotation completely after his nonsense with the team. That was his own doing.

    Not sure who it helps to recreate history. The story is well known and readily available. Gio and his parents worked him out of the rotation. The actual events in history and their context do not change because after the World Cup Gio finally figures out that he needs to be on the field and he needs to produce when he’s there.
     
  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Reyna was going to be the third winger behind Pulisic and Weah, why would Gregg tell him before the tournament even started that he would have a very limited role at the World Cup?

    You seem to have the chronology wrong, as Reyna's reaction came AFTER he was told that.
     
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  11. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    What facts do you have to support your claim that Reyna’s limited role 1) was behind Morris’ role, and/or 2) had anything to do at all with Kellyn Acosta’s role PRIOR to his antics in which he was disciplined by the team and Berhalter?
     
  12. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    In my humble opinion, it's time to stop giving the toxic, ignorant end any more oxygen. It's ruining half the discussions here. That ignore button has its uses...
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This will go on for years just like the Donovan vs Dempsey camps and the Klinsmann, Arena and Bradley takes. Just the way it is.
     
  14. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I imagine he might have if the entire team hadn't been dragging --- from running 20 more miles (or whatever that crazy # was) than the Netherlands in the Group stage and were so gassed out they couldn't even be bothered to mark a simple man, or turn their head to the right on the third goal. Me thinks that Reyna probably looks better just like the team if Eggs game plan hadn't been to leave his best striker at home, never rest MMA, never bring LDLT off the bench, and rotate nobody until they were so gassed they were about to get injured (kind of the Arriola in window 2 of qualifying plan).

    Im not about to sell that Reyna looked great against the Netherlands, he didn't, in fact, if he'd only sucked 10x worse he would've approached how god awful Ferreira was, but the problem against the Netherlands wasn't Reyna, it was the team being dead on their feet when it came to defending. Oddly, they attacked fairly well but did not have the legs to track back that match.

    Reyna was fine, not great, not bad, just fine. I would hope if we could turn back the clock, some sensible decisions would have been made (keep Ferreira at home, or replace Roldan with him, and bring Pepi in as striker, leave LDLT at home and replace him in the roster if you had no intention of playing him in any match, stop with the stupidity at RB and LB in terms of depth and play freaking Scally so Dest and Jedi could get rest etc) but this tournament was always gonna be a weird one, I just wish it hadn't come off feeling like a lost opportunity (no chance we're as healthy in '26 or '30, the team was the healthiest it had been ever w/this generation of players, and the path in the knockouts was reasonably friendly, getting a down version of the Dutch instead of a powerhouse like France or Brazil).
     
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  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe some reporter should ask Jordan Morris and Kellyn Acosta if Gregg told them before the World Cup that they would have a very limited role at the tournament... in fact ask every player, curious who else got the very limited role talk... or was it just Reyna?

    Of course a competent coach who understands man management wouldn't tell ANY of his players that they would have a very limited role at the World Cup before it even began, because that is just INSANE.

    Does anyone genuinely think Terzic is telling Reyna he will have a very limited role, even while bringing him in off the bench?? No of course not, because again, doing so would be INSANE.

    Here's a question back: What facts do you have to support that competent coaches tell their players they will have very limited roles at the World Cup? What coaches have ever done this besides Gregg? What's the success rate of this "suck all hope out of your players" tactic? < thinking emoji >
     
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  16. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    The problem with this is "very limited role" came from Reyna's statement. We have no idea what that means to him or what Beerholder told him. It could be that Reyna learned from his WC experience and isn't sulking at BVB. Could be that he thought the WC is a very short window of opportunity, whereas with BVB he knows he'll eventually have a more prominent role and is more satisfied to wait for that opportunity.
     
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  17. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So we have 1 piece of evidence (first hand account) to support it and 0 pieces of evidence to contradict it...
    Obviously we can re-evaluate if/when there is any new information, but as of now there is zero push back from ANY source (even anonymously) on Reyna's claim that Berhalter told him before the World Cup that he would have a "very limited role".... as of now this isn't even a "one person's word against another's" thing, so it seems strange for you to categorize it as a "problem"?
     
  18. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any coach would say ‘you’re not starting the first game’ and that’s it. Nothing else need be said, because any number of things can happen during game one or in between games. To quote Xb, it’s idiotic.

    What I’m seeing suggested here is Reyna is a liar and flipped out for some other reason. He should have reacted better, which he admitted, but I don’t doubt his reason.
     
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  19. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    We have Doyle's account from MLS Extra Time podcast I think that Monday after our draw with Wales, that he wasn't going to play much at all (apparently gogoroth mentioned it was more injury related according to that reporting, I haven't relistened, always wondered if that was basically a cover for what was really going on (a punishment)) but we'll likely never know unless there's some tell all down the line like the Couva stories that hit seven months after we failed to make the WC but I tend to doubt it.

    So we basically have at least 1.5 sources, maybe 2, and a ton of smoke.
     
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  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forgot about that... Matt Doyle counts as a good source, he's been around forever, has lots of connections, and is not some rando, so that's 2-0.
     
  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Well…

    After the Wales lineups dropped, and before kickoff, I was told that Gio was only cleared to play 15 mins by training staff. After the match both Gio and Gregg said that Gio had felt tightness over the past few days but Gregg said Gio passed a last minute fitness test and was available to play. Gio said he felt good on the day. Gregg basically said he was going to pick and choose when to risk him.

    After that we found out that, according to Gio, he was told “just before the World Cup” (an event that begins when the first game kicks off) that he would have a “very limited” role and that he had an emotional reaction “for a few days after learning about my limited role.”

    From reporting and leaked comments we know that this emotional reaction involved an alarming lack of effort in training. The first specific instance we know about happened in the 11/17/22 scrimmage against a local team. In that scrimmage some thought Gio’s lack of effort was an effort to protect an injury. We played Wales 4 days later on the 21st. Gio’s lack of effort continued into a post-Wales training session where he was reportedly talked to by Yedlin and Long. Then, after that, at a video session (on the 22nd? 23rd?), Reyna stood up and apologized for his lack of effort in training and teammates spoke up and told him to be better.

    So his emotional reaction that he says lasted “a few days” lasted at least from the 17th to the 22nd, which is 6 days. I suspect his apology actually occurred on the 23rd, which makes it a full week. Both are stretching the definition of “a few days”. So, if you believe Gio’s words, his emotional reaction could not have started much before that scrimmage (6-7 days is stretching it but 10-11 clearly doesn’t match his statement).

    So taking Gio’s statement to be true I believe he was told he would not be starting close to the 11/17/22 scrimmage and that he would be playing that scrimmage with the 2nd team (which is a pretty big clue to a player about where they stand and makes it smart for a coach to get in front of). This decision caused Gio’s emotional reaction and subsequent lack of effort. What led to the decision to not start Gio and limit his role is easy to figure out, he wasn’t fully fit.

    It’s 2 months after the WC ended for Gio and he is still being used in a limited role (jibes with only being passed fit to play 15 mins 2 weeks before that). After 2 straight sub appearances wherein Gio scored crucial goals the official BVB team account tweeted comments from their manager saying Gio has been battling injury for almost 1.5 years (1.5 would be September 2021 until March of 2023). He then complimented Gio’s quality and said he still wasn’t 100%. To me this reads as a coach explaining why a player who looked great off the bench didn’t start the 2nd game and possibly why, in the next game after this statement, he would opt to rest him.

    In addition, I have also heard that while Gio was with the team in Qatar he did not make a single sprint prior to the Wales match and that when he failed to sprint in warmups he was ruled out from playing in that match. Training staff have trackers on players to track their movement and physical condition. When Gio got back on the field against England he only covered 13 meters at a speed greater than 25 km/h, beating out Matt Turner in that category by .3 meters.
     
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  22. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is the nature of discussion boards. Hopefully your definition of toxic is not just the side you disagree with? ;)
     
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  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't think it's going to go on long at all. Feels more like Bob vs Klinsy circa 2012-2014, some people bothered, some people not, but the team ran off a ridiculous winning streak, and escaped the group of death, so basically it faded in relevance and evolved instead into: why is Klinsy still the coach?!?! circa 2015-2016, at which point Klinsy again got a bit of a weird set of results that inflated him again (feels like the run off of wins, plus the group of death escape masked issues from cycle one, and then the excellent performance in the Centenario masked crap performances at the Gold Cup in '15, the Gold Cup Confed Cup playoff later that year, and more crummy qualifying around the same time period.

    I do think this fades out w/time, pretty easily, '22 is going to become much more about the missed opportunity (ridiculous degree of health for the first choice 23 and starting 11 (basically at most, maybe a CB out due to injury, and Reyna, and otherwise, the first XI was healthy, and most of the first choice subs were as well, that's rare in any cycle and especially rare for a team that was smashed by injuries nonstop from '19 into '22). The fact that we got a group of life and one of the most user friendly knockout matches possible for a group stage runner up and some weird strategic and tactical decisions by the coach (lack of rotation, overdepence on MMA, not using Scally or Pepi period when we needed Jedi to get some rest (see 3rd goal against the Dutch, see the lack of striker options worth a damn once Sargent went down))...it's going to be about running the team into the ground and botching an opportunity, kind of like how chasing the game 3 consecutive times in the group of life in '10 left us exhausted for the Ghana R16 match. It's odd how similar in that sense, that WC was to that one.

    Yes Reyna will always be connected to it, but I could see it fading in time pretty significantly, I think the other issues were vastly more important to the team failing than Reyna's playing time.

    Thanks to Morocco for a great write up, I think that's the most reasonable take and reporting I've ever seen on what took place and the most explicable.
     
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  24. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your recollection and mine are vastly different so lets leave it at that.

    What is relevant is always subjective and we should be able to have different points of view unless folks are just looking for a large circle jerk.

    Just because someone has a different point of view does not make it toxic.
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy

    You have just detailed the most pathetic management of a WC team ever. It almost defies belief.
     
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