News/Rumor: 2023 Chicago Fire Roster Speculation

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by willydonc, Sep 14, 2022.

  1. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Luka at the 10, Shaqiri at RW and Franki as LWB (like he is now at Lens)!
     
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  2. splunge63

    splunge63 Member+

    Mar 30, 2014
    west burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If Torres is healthy (and he should be), that's a big add. How big? No clue, but last year was a disaster.

    Feeling pretty good about our CB corps. Omsberg was a revelation (relative to my expectations), before he went down. Hope he's 100% back (which doesn't mean he's gonna beat out Teran).

    Can Guti take the next step? Sure hope so.

    Heitz's next moves are critical (to be filed under penetrating observations).
     
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  3. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Bummer, would have like to see us take a swing for Arango

     
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  4. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kacpar with a goal today, Torres with two but one was a PK so I guess it doesn’t count- even though it increased the score. We’re fine, no new players needed (take that shit to the optimism thread!).
     
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  5. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Let's see if we can align on why "not all goals are the same"....

    Yes PK's "COUNT" the same, but 70+% of PKs are scored.

    Last year's MLS Golden Boot scored 23G, 6 were PKs, and his G/SH was 0.14(incl the PKs!)

    1) PKs come from opponents mistakes and easy to convert.
    2) In play goals are WAY harder to generate and are a better measure of an attacker's skill and effectiveness/productiveness.

    Dig?
     
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  6. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dig. Part of the reason PK conversions are so high is because the right players are taking them. If the player that earned the PK took it always, the conversion rate would drop some. If the opposing team got to choose the PK taker, the conversion rate would drop. If the player was chosen at random, the conversion rate would drop. PKs are “easy” to convert because the players taking them are good at scoring. And, yes- the count the same, as they should.
     
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  7. splunge63

    splunge63 Member+

    Mar 30, 2014
    west burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Good for KP. I truly hope he has a bounce back year. That said, Heitz needs a big upgrade at striker. KP is not the answer if we actually have aspirations (beyond mediocrity).
     
  8. Some of the greatest goal scorers do not feel comfortable taking penalties and some of the best penalty takers are not generally goal scorers other than penalties.
     
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  9. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    the PK conversation is so obnoxious

    yes they count and yes it's a skill to hit them

    but it's also helpful at times to remove them from conversation for certain analysis

    it shouldn't be that hard
     
  10. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Can't help but wonder if it's me...was there this much consternation on the topic before I started posting stats? Or before I started critiquing Shaqiri's performance?:ROFLMAO:
     
  11. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    As if no one else here uses stats? You just often use them unintelligibly.
     
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  12. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    So...it is/was my use of G-PK and you can't understand it? Or don't wan't to...or just want to be contentious. Gotcha.
     
  13. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    xG is a relative number. You don’t understand it. An xG of 1 on team A is not necessarily a better xG than a .8 on another team. It’s not even consistent for the same team depending on the site you get it from.

    It’s certainly useless as a stand alone stat when used to compare two different players across two almost entirely different teams with two different coaches in two different years.
     
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  14. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

    It is a defined qualitative measure that is specifically for comparing performance...no it is not absolute and without "more to the story"...it's silly to be dismissive of it as a relative measure.

    https://www.statsperform.com/opta-event-definitions/
    Globally Consistent Definitions
    Opta data’s key strength is the ability to provide in-depth, accessible data that is consistent across the globe. Without this certainty, our player and team statistics can be far less valuable and there would be a danger that different leagues would be analysed in conflicting ways, rendering proper player comparison invalid.


    To avoid this, Opta have a long-established, consistent list of ‘Event Definitions’ in football that are adhered to across all data collection centres.


    Expected Goals (xG) measures the quality of a shot based on several variables such as assist type, shot angle and distance from goal, whether it was a headed shot and whether it was defined as a big chance. Adding up a player or team’s expected goals can give us an indication of how many goals a player or team should have scored on average, given the shots they have taken.
     
  15. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    You don’t get it.
     
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  16. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone heard anything about a new striker?
     
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  17. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    But you do…but can’t explain it in a way that is ‘intelligible’ and convincing…you just keep saying ‘you’re are right and I’m wrong’. Sigh.
     
  18. Mac97

    Mac97 Member+

    Jul 15, 2014
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I would like to hear the organization aspire to something beyond "making the playoffs". Given the percentage of teams making the playoffs, that's not a high bar.
    Remember when the talk, and drive, even when building a squad, was a TITLE?

    Yes I realize that its been long enough that many hear may not remember that. But our coaching staff sure as hell does.
     
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  19. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even though it was meaningless, it would have been nice to watch today’s match. I am especially interested in the play of Dean and Torres this preseason. Which player(s) are you most interested in? ( I did not include Kacper in the faint hope we might still make an acquisition now).
     
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  20. Old Man!

    Old Man! BigSoccer Supporter

    RIP Chicago Fire
    Mar 11, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait..did we really not sign anyone? Or is that just the European window and MLS teams can still sign players from Asia and S. America?
     
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  21. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct! I like your optimistic attitude! A toast to the idea that an acquisition that knocks our socks off will occur!
     
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  22. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #1297 xtomx, Jan 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
    It is you.

    There was no consternation as all goals count the same, regardless if they are from run of play or free kick or penalties.
    Even Mr. Own Goal counts the same.

    Frankly, prior to your constant bitching and whining about Shaqiri it was not really an issue.

    Nobody likes penalties, but can't say there was all that much discussion about it around here.

    Your bitching quickly became annoying and destroyed any credibility you may have been afforded when you started posting.
     
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  23. Old Man!

    Old Man! BigSoccer Supporter

    RIP Chicago Fire
    Mar 11, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This reminds me a little of the debate when Preki won the Golden Boot even though he didn't have the most goals.
     
  24. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    !!!

    I have no recollection of that!
     
  25. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    #1300 overlap_old_coach, Feb 1, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
    That's a bit rich coming from you...seriously...you are going to call someone out for "bitching and whining"? :laugh:

    Of course "PKs count the same"...duh...but there is a reason the stats track "non-penalty goals"...you just don't agree with it and can't handle an opposing critical view.

    It's absurd to think no one else on the team could have tallied the 4 PKs Shaqiri was asked to convert. Those goals bringing his total to 7(more than double his open play goals) is exactly Bunge's complaint above about xG...it doesn't tell the whole story...and that complaint was in response to a comment of mine with a "G-pk" stat, not xG....but I'm used to the redirection to "something else" at this point.

    Instead of having an actual open discussion, or debate, you and bunge mock my posts and attempt to belittle me. Challenge my posted positions with something more logical than "you don't get it" and repeating the same sophomoric shit over and over.

    Lastly, simply put, in 60% the minutes played Luka (making $370k) scored more goals than Shaqiri (including his PKs, making 8mil) ...but go ahead and nutride Shaqiri.

    Whatever :rolleyes:
     

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