Olympics and Copa: Do We Prioritize One?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jan 29, 2023.

  1. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Pepi who wasn't taken to the WC would be thrilled, of course. I guess he will hang up the phone again, and then won't be released, of course. And that would be reaction of the most players expecting a call to Copa.
     
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  2. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    An age-level tournament that has been deliberately de-emphasized by FIFA (by not requiring clubs to release their players), at the least-important age-level category, piggy-backing on a larger sporting event that mainly emphasizes other sports isn't especially important. I know a lot of people feel that the domestic eyeballs will matter, but because of time differences and whatnot, the networks will probably prioritize the usual suspects until the team makes it to the late stages of the tournament, anyway. The Olympic-viewing public wants to watch wins and medal ceremonies (and, NBC thinks, human interest stories), and has little interest in the men's football tournament unless and until we're on the verge of a medal.

    I know that Mexico prioritizes the Olympics, but since when do we want to emulate Mexico, who are no closer to elite status than they were 30 years ago, despite decades-worth of prior development and public enthusiasm?
     
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  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I guess that the original poster is asking whether a U23-eligible player that is an important starter or backup to the first team should go to the Olympics in lieu of Copa or not. For me the answer, if he's indeed an important senior team member, is HELL NO, especially as that player is more likely not going to be released for the Olympics by his club, anyhow. And it goes without saying that we should want Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Dest, Gio, etc. at the Copa, where we will face the actual Brazil/Argentina/Colombia/Uruguay, etc. instead of whatever U23s they managed to get released plus three others.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't care if you care, but the Federation cares. Part of its mission is to introduce them to the sport.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #80 Clint Eastwood, Jan 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
    The whole Pepi thing is overblown.
    Our pool is big enough that lots of players are going to be upset if they don't get the call.
    What I love seeing is Arriola's response recently. That's leadership.

    Thera are a lot of opportunities throughout a cycle. Copa, Gold Cup, Nations League, U20WC, Olympics, etc.

    ................but the World Cup is different.

    We'll be able to send a strong squad to both the Olympics and the Copa. But we all know, everybody on this board knows, that the Copa is higher priority. I don't even know why this is a discussion. Olympics is a U23 youth event. Copa America is the senior event THAT WE'RE HOSTING.

    Youth events are always a means to an end. That end is the senior USMNT. That doesn't mean we won't send a strong squad to the Olympics. We're building the depth to do that. There are a lot of current U20 players that we're going to view differently in a year and a half. We waltzed thru the CONCACAF U20 Championships. That team is really strong, and those players will be the core of the Olympic team. We just saw Paxten Aaronson and Jalen Neal at January camp. They're coming. And a year and a half from now we won't be talking about how sending Jack McGlynn to the Olympics is somehow not prioritizing it. [And if Scally, Pepi, Slonina, Johnny, Cowell, Che, Gomez, Tolkin, and those guys aren't senior team regulars in a year and a half............we'll send them too. The only eligible guys I think are 100% SURE FIRE no-doubt senior team players in a year and a half are Musah and Reyna. Hopefully others like Scally get there soon, but they're not there yet.]
     
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  6. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Good for the Federation, keeps them busy. But I still don't care. Waste of time and money.
     
  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    because the first statement isnt true. however arrogantly you put it, however many times you insist thats the case.

    have you tried posting it in all caps? is there a stomping around and crossing your arms emoji you can add? why dont you get the rest of the guys to post it too? rep it more, maybe?
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I'm not saying we aren't going to send a strong team to the Olympics.

    Currently there are only one or two sure-fire Olympic-eligible players that are also "A" team USMNTers. At the moment Musah and Reyna. That's it. Those two will be at Copa America with the "A" team.

    If people think we're going to send Musah and Reyna to the Olympics, as opposed to the Copa America with the senior team.............then I don't know what to say.

    Musah has never played for a US youth team. Reyna hasn't since the U17s in 2019. These are senior USMNTers. Solely. Scally also went from the U17s to the senior USMNT. Never played for our U18s, U19s, U20s, or U23s. Maybe he's the third to move to solely senior USMNT.

    Everybody else, for the moment....................may be with the Olympic team. Paredes, Pepi, Slonina, Johnny, Gomez, Che, Cowell, Tolkin. The list goes on and on. Depends where they are a year and a half from now.

    I mean, watch what the European teams do for the UEFA U21 Championships. Did Kylian Mbappe represent France there when he was eligible? Of course not. Kylian Mbappe never played for the France U21s. He was a senior France international. That's the team he plays for.

    Teams don't send senior players, elite internationals, down to youth teams in order to win youth events. That's not the point of youth events. And yes, in soccer teams...........the Olympics are a youth event.

    France is deep enough, and don't need him to anyway.

    We're getting to the point where we're pretty deep and don't need Gio Reyna playing with the U23s either.
     
  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I'm curious to see how many players will play in both tournaments. My initial reaction was zero. But the more I think about it the more likely it seems that there will be some overlap.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #85 Clint Eastwood, Jan 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
    In theory its possible.

    Kinda like how Reggie Cannon played in both the Nations League and Gold Cup in the summer of 2021. [Or how we have very few examples of a player going to the U20WC and Gold Cup in the same year. Bradley and Adu did it.]

    It probably can happen if the club wants to put their player in the shop window (or isn't actually wanted), which supposedly was the case for Cannon.

    As one can imagine, clubs wouldn't want their guys being overworked in the summer. Even less so if they're MLS players. They don't want them away for both tournaments while they have games to play. So we are likely to spread out the workload.

    We'll of course have other games and events in 2024. Presumably the start of Nations League 2024/2025, for instance. Friendlies, all sorts of games. So it'll all be a negotiation with clubs.
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mbappe would have been released for the U21 Euros most likely though. Just because of where it falls in the calendar guys get released compared to the Olympics. The problem with the Olympics is how late in the summer it takes place.

    Ironically Mbappe has said he wants to play in the Olympics in 2024 with them being in France and has the sway to force PSG to let him.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nations take the Olympics seriously when they're hosting. LIke Brazil in 2016 when they managed to get Neymar as an overage player (after a lengthy war of words with Barca about it.)

    But even when taking it seriuosly, look at their other overage players in 2016. Renato Augusto, who was playing in China. And Weverton, an uncapped keeper.

    With all of the U23 players at Brazil's disposal, they only had 4 European-based players on that roster.
     
  13. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    dest, scally, aaronson, weah, pepi and sarge are all age eligible, i believe (not loooking at exact ages/cutoff date).

    is musah regular eligible, though? he played youth events with england but did he have to file a one-time switch? and is he eligible to play a youth event for another team/us regardless?

    anyways, my only issue with your post was the bullshit gatekeeping thats been going on the last few days. who you think should be where? go nuts. but this "it isnt even in question what we prioritize, this discussion is over" crap about what people can even talk about is idiotic.
     
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  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the thing is that someone like Mbappe or Neymar has the sway with their club to force them into letting them play. But even most European based Brazil players aren't able to get the club to release them.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Musah is definitely eligible. He never played in U21 Euro qualifying for England which would have made him not eligible (and it would have had to have happened for qualifying for this summer's U21 event). Balogun has so he's possibly not eligible. But there's an argument to be made that he should be given that England will not be participating in the Olympics in soccer and for them the U21 Euro qualifying is not a qualifying event for the Olympics.
     
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  16. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i guess england (or scotland, wales, etc) dont qualify for the olympics at all. how does great britian qualify? (thats rhetorical cause i dont really care)
     
  17. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When was the last time the US men qualified for the Olympics? Wasn't it a big deal when they gained qualification? It's important for the next generation of players, and the program as a whole in order to set a winning culture. It's also mostly an under 23 tournament, so there will be plenty of talented players to bring there, while not sacrificing a top choice roster should the US qualify to participate in the 2024 Copa America.
     
  18. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    They don't. Stopped trying to qualify in 1972. Played in 2012 because the games were in London and they got an automatic spot.
     
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  19. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They did it in 2012 because they were hosting and England wanted to do it going forward, but the other Home Nations are against doing so.

    In 2015 England told the other Home Nations they intended to enter a team if they qualified and Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland were all opposed. FIFA then said there can’t be a Great Britton team unless you have all Home Nations in agreement. After that England backed down and said they wouldn’t try and enter a team.

    They did later agree to a woman’s team for 2020, but no agreement on the men’s side.

    There’s also the issue that all the Home Nations are in UEFA U21 qualifying themselves.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    In 2012, there were five Welshmen on the roster, but no Scots and no Northern Irish. I can't imagine that ingratiated the Scots or the Northern Irish to join in.
     
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  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updated...

    1. 2026 World Cup (host)
    2. 2024 Copa America (host)
    3. 2024 Olympics
    4. 2025 Confederations Cup (host)
    5. 2025-6 Nations League
    6. 2025 Gold Cup (host, usually the lesser GC, but WC is a year later and no qualifying)
    7. 2022-3 Nations League
    8. 2023 Gold Cup (host)
    9. 2023 U-20 World Cup
    10. 2025 U-20 World Cup
    11. 2023 Pan American Games



     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    2008, the last time we qualified, we did argue a lot about who we'd take. There was a legitimate conflict between the Olympics and a World Cup qualifier. If we advanced past the group stage at the Olympics, all Olympics players would have missed the WCQer against Guatemala on August 20th. Turns out we were eliminated by Nigeria on August 17th.

    That's a big reason we didn't take more critical senior team players as overage players. We prioritized the senior team match. 100%.

    I think Michael Bradley, who didn't play in the last Olympics game against Nigeria (due to a red card against Holland in the previous game)...............did manage to fly across the world from China to Guatemala.........and then START in the WCQer against Guate days later. And people bitched about his performance in the game.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Somewhat OT but I don't want to start a new thread... but this Mexico stuff is wild. There was a national team committee headed by LigaMX clubs ... but it was four clubs (I think) headed by Pachuca.

    So they were avoiding hiring Pachuca's coach, presumably to keep him. They had literally recommended Bielsa.

    Now, somehow -- and what are even the governance on this? Like was there a literal violent coup? -- it's four new teams and they rejected Bielsa and are going after Pachuca's coach. Pachuca has done really well recently as a non-traditional power, so it is probably a good hire, but still it feels like Chivas and America are trying to damage Pachuca more than anything.

    This isn't even LigaMX just controlling the FMF; it almost seems like it is the plaything of multiple groups trying to spite each other.
     
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  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #99 Clint Eastwood, Jan 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
    The age cut-off for the Olympics is players born in 2001 or later.
    So no Weah, Aaronson, Sargent, Dest, etc.
    They are not eligible.

    Of the players on the World Cup roster................only Musah, Reyna, and Scally are eligible for the Olympics.

    Musah is still eligible. Players who appeared in Olympic qualifying matches for other teams aren't eligible for our Olympic team. So for instance, Leone of Mexico. Musah didn't play at that level for England. The more interesting one is Balogun, who's appeared for England in UEFA U21 qualifiers (UEFA U21s used for Olympic qualifying). We don't know about him as its complicated. England wouldn't go to the Olympics even if they qualified. But he may still be "cap-tied" at that level if he switched to the US.

    Who knows what the pool will look like in a year and a half? Hard to say who "A" or "B" players will be. All I'm saying is that for me, only Musah and Reyna are sure-fire A team players in 2024. Scally probable. Everybody else is a maybe. Just depends what the new USMNT coach wants to do. Maybe Tillman (born in 2001) will be a key player for him, and maybe he won't be.

    Point being, we'll still send a very strong team to the Olympics even if we "prioritize" Copa America.
     
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  25. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The three other FAs asked their players not to make themselves available for consideration, though they could not legally block anyone who was interested.
     
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