Goal contribution of the best players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Trachta10, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Peak of goal involvement in three consecutive years (club+national team)

    Pelé 1963-1965
    Diego Maradona 1978-1980
    Lionel Messi 2011-2013
    Ferenc Puskás 1948-1950
    Zico 1978-1980
    Cristiano Ronaldo 2013-2015

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  2. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Some advanced stats in 1956

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    Acc pases, Puskás in the top

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  3. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Maradona has 140 goals + assists in 127 games. How does that equate to 0.976 goals assists per 90 minutes? How many minutes they used to play per match then lol?
     
  4. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Non-penalty goals + assists p90
     
  5. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Best football players of all time in 1983 by Hennes Weisweiler (german)

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  6. Paulob

    Paulob New Member

    Fluminense
    Brazil
    Jan 28, 2023
    According to the newspaper "Diário da Noite", Pelé didn't make any assistance in the match Santos 4x2 Comercial-sp, on November 4, 1959. In fact, we had:

    - 1 goal by Pelé;
    - 1 goal by Coutinho (assist by Dorval);
    -1 goal by Feijó (penalty)
    - 1 goal by Dorval at the end of the second half (Pelé played as a goalkeeper from the 17th minute of the second half).

    Source: http://memoria.bn.br/DocReader/DocReader.aspx?bib=093351&pagfis=56463
     
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  7. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Thanks! we didn't find detailed descriptions for this game
     
  8. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    This is really interesting/surprising. I didn’t really think of Puskas as being the type of player that would lead his team in passes (or that would have such high passing accuracy). I guess I must not really understand the role that he played.
     
  9. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Yes, Puskás is surely one of the players with most assists in football history if not the most.

    This is an interesting analysis regarding these data

    "Puskás takes the ball much more often than any other Hungarian top-flight striker. However, this time loss can be easily compensated for by a 30-35 meter accurate through pass or cross. No Hungarian striker can pass a long ball as accurately as Puskás. It's no coincidence that he often gives such balls, and not once does an immediate scoring opportunity arise from his pass. In 1955, Puskás gave particularly many such balls in the matches, because due to his weaker physical condition he played a constructive role for most of the year and mostly from behind he "threw" his attacking teammates into attack. This role also meant that he took and handled the balls that came to him much more often. (By arbitrarily changing Puskás's role, he effectively changed the structure of the whole national team. This circumstance was also part of the reason that the national team's famous attacking play was not as busy in 1955 as it had been before.)"

    "According to the data obtained from the measurements, the question arises: is ball possession and dribbling too much for some of our forwards? In ball possession, Puskas leads, and in dribbling, Puskas and Hidegkuti are far ahead of the others. (However, Hidegkuti dribbles less when he is in form. At these times, his play is much more energetic and he does not stop the attack with unnecessary dribbling.) Ball possession and dribbling are also strikingly high in Kopa's game. I would like to mention two more significant observations. One is that with the exception of Kocsis and Hidegkuti, all observed forwards need to improve in heading! (It's worth paying attention to this too!) The other is that not all of the forwards fulfill their defensive duties properly. Except for Puskas, Hungarian center forwards generally do not interfere and do not try to dispossess the opponent who has the ball. The two left-wingers, Fenyvesi and Tóth M., lead the way in this regard."


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  10. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    This was auto translated and seems to have errors, sorry.
    when it says "and not once does an immediate scoring opportunity arise from his pass"

    it's actually
    "and more than once an immediate scoring opportunity arises from his pass"
     
  11. SaidB94

    SaidB94 New Member

    Dec 22, 2022
    Oh, I had forgotten to correct the minutes of the match against Portuguesa (08/26/1973) that you mentioned in one of your comments. I have already corrected it and added many more things to complement the data that you (Trachta, you and the others) provided. Thank you!
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/9numhr191n8kmfa/Pel%C3%A9_en_partidos_oficiales.xlsx/file
     
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  12. Paulob

    Paulob New Member

    Fluminense
    Brazil
    Jan 28, 2023
    The Brazilian journalist Milton Rodrigues published a book that describes the matches of América (team from São José do Rio Preto city, in São Paulo state) against Santos when Pelé was playing (https://museudofutebol.org.br/crfb/acervo/551859).

    He also published in a personal blog the description of the match América-SP 2x3 Santos, on August 30, 1959. According to this description, Pelé assisted the first two goals, in addition to scoring the third goal (http://miltonrodrigues.blogspot.com...-6.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter).

    On the other hand, the regional newspaper "Correio da Araraquarense" brings the description of the match (see page 5 of the file in the link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K8xDtHzOCJCyI5M0S0jCuE_bEBUaWEpD/view?usp=sharing). Unfortunately, the file is not very good for reading, but also taking into account Rodrigues' description it is possible to read the following:

    - first goal: "Santos F. C. opened the scoring in the 30th minute of the first phase. Dorval received a pass in his position, ran with the ball to the center and handed it to Pelé who quickly returned it to the right(?) winger, who penetrated free and beat Lugano."

    - second goal: "In the second phase Pagão again put his team ahead in the 17th minute. [...?] took a free-kick at the [...?] entrance of the american area, where Pelé headed to Pagão who broke free from Fogosa and shot into the opponent's net."
     
  13. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    Do you think we could find more detailed data on the following matches?

    Santos 8 x 3 XV de Jaú (26/07/1959)
    Santos 6 x 2 Comercial-RP (01/11/1959)
    Santos 4 x 2 Comercial-SP (04/11/1959)
     
  14. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Thanks! this is great
    It seems that Pelé have two assists in this game

    Is there a digital archive of Correio da Araraquarense that can be accessed to search for more matches?

    we only have three games left
    26/07/1959 vs XV de Jaú
    23/08/1959 vs Noroeste
    01/11/1959 vs Comercial-RP
     
  15. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    the game of Santos 4 x 2 Comercial-SP (04/11/1959) was found
    http://memoria.bn.br/DocReader/DocReader.aspx?bib=093351&pagfis=56463

    we only need
    26/07/1959 vs XV de Jaú
    23/08/1959 vs Noroeste
    01/11/1959 vs Comercial-RP
     
  16. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
  17. Paulob

    Paulob New Member

    Fluminense
    Brazil
    Jan 28, 2023
    It seems that the best newspaper to find details of Pelé matches is “A Tribuna” (from Santos city). But the year 1959 is not available on the internet.

    The “Correio da Araraquarense” was interested in the matches of América of Rio Preto and does not go into details of the matches of Santos against other teams, I already checked. But this newspaper indirectly allowed us to know more about the Santos team, when it played against América.

    Using this indirect way maybe we can get the information on the internet. For example, for 8/23/59 vs Noroeste, we can search for newspapers or publications around Bauru city (the city of the Noroeste team).
     
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  18. Paulob

    Paulob New Member

    Fluminense
    Brazil
    Jan 28, 2023
    This is the link to the municipal archive of São José do Rio Preto. It gives access to several local newspapers, including Correio da Araraquarense:

    https://www.riopreto.sp.gov.br/arquivomunicipal
     
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  19. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Five consecutive years "Peak" of goal involvement %

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  20. SaidB94

    SaidB94 New Member

    Dec 22, 2022
    Does anyone have the number of times Pelé saved a shot in those 2 games in which he played as a goalkeeper (11/4/1959 and 01/19/1964)? I could only confirm one save and it is the penalty against Gremio in 1964.
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  21. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    #1721 Trachta10, Feb 2, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2023
    In the match reports most of the shots are not mentioned, sometimes they mention highlight plays but sometimes not even that.

    In the game of 1964, Gilmar was sent off in the 88th minute and Pelé take his place playing 6 minutes, there is a mention of "three good interventions" by Pelé but there isn't a mention of a penalty saved.

    http://memoria.bn.br/DocReader/DocReader.aspx?bib=153931_01&Pesq=pele&pagfis=38499


    In the game of 1959, Pelé played 28 minutes as goalkeeper, but there are no more details, only that Comercial tried to attack more but without success


    By the way, I don't understand why you would put your best player as a goalkeeper. Maybe because the game was already under control. Even Di Stefano was a goalkeeper

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  22. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Pelé in Argentina vs the biggest clubs

    18 games (1545 minutes)
    13 goals (3 penalties)
    13 assists (Opta)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Non-penalty goals: 0.583
    Assists: 0.757
    G+A-PK: 1.340

    Goal Involvement: 57.42%

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    My criterion to choose the teams were games against the "Big Five" (Boca Juniors, River Plate, Independiente, Racing Club, San Lorenzo) +Estudiantes de La Plata and Vélez Sarsfield. So, those are the games played against the top7 teams (played in Argentina)
     
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  23. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    Here I leave this list with all the games played by Pelé in Argentina.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Ferenc Puskás in Official Games

    previously we used the number of assists from the Nela.hu website but it seems that they used a criteria like Transfermarkt, so the number of assists is actually lower, in total we counted 357 assists (Opta criteria), but there are 17 missing games where the team scored 87 goals. I estimate 17 more assists, a total of 374 assists in 719 games.

    719 games (89.17 min/game)
    710 goals (89 penalties, 28 free kicks, 48 headers)
    357 assists (counted)
    374 assists (estimated)

    Per 90 minutes:
    Goals: 0.997
    Non-PK goals: 0.872
    Assists: 0.501 (0.525 est)
    Free kicks: 0.039
    Headers: 0.067

    G+A: 1.522

    G+A-PK: 1.397


    Club Seasons
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    Calendar year (Club and National Team)
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  25. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member

    Jan 28, 2020
    great effort, Trachta 10

    I think one way to improvement these tables in future is putting the winning goals or winning assist.
     
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