The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    It is more like equal share. You talk
    About nfl in post directed at me I answer
     
  2. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Why has no other major US sports league instituted pro/rel?
     
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  3. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    I mean American football/soccer will be nothing as long there is no pro/rel and they become unique and stop being. Pressurized to implement some glorified nfl way of thinking most nfl in sport ot strategy are most glorified battleship board game strategiest in the world. It shows in isa coaches when they do subs most pf.times it is lol moment wondering what they try to do .most of people running MLS are former nfl employees if they doesn't tell you anything I do not know what will. Its great USA is not great in football so we do not have to listen to.ypur bs but there is fans of MLS ,USL around here you would think you would want pro/rel
     
  4. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Haven't seen a thread derail go on like this in quite a while.
     
  5. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Gotta be tough living in Bosnia when all you hear about is "NFL, NFL, NFL" 24 hours a day
     
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  6. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    It has to be stupid to have nfl owners and former front office run your sport and tell you.be Boring like us and do not do drastic measures that would make your sport popular even more
     
  7. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Gotta be tough going around thinking nfl is big deal around the world and constantly be disappointed
     
  8. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Who dey!
     
  9. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never stated anything about being relegated due to GD. I said it starts to be a really good indicator going forward ... and the second half (the run in) of the season their schedule features more opponents sitting at 10th or better than not. That's how it is top heavy.

    Potentially yes, but that's always been the case (potentially). The new tv contract is really giving a few clubs a leg to stand on, build, or try to keep up (see Fulham/Bournemouth/Leeds). Before that kicked in we were seeing an ever increasing gap (a handful of teams taking up the majority of promotion slots for 20ish years). This new money is a little bit of an equalizer at the bottom end (helping to create a larger swath of middling clubs between EPL/Championship level). That though, is the money and not pro/rel creating something.
     
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  10. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    What you afraid your team might go down and not worth supporting. That is basicly why football in USA is where it is
    It is not something you.supoort but just something you.want.to.talk about how next year will be your year after tou.get all the picks
     
  11. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I have been a San Diego Loyal season ticket holder since their inaugural season in 2020. For those who don't know the Loyal are a US second division club. After the 2022 season I was conflicted whether or not to renew. It wasn't the games themselves, I really enjoyed going, having a few beers with friends and watching a decent standard of football live. It was that I didn't really give a S*** about the league. I wasn't that bothered that we got knocked out of the first round of playoffs. I was annoyed but nothing like I used to feel when the Chargers lost a big game, or when Liverpool does. I just am not that excited about winning the USL-Championship.

    Now I did end up renewing my season ticket, but a big reason why I did was because San Diego is now in line to get an MLS Franchise. And the rumor around town is that the MLS Franchise will be through the Loyal. So maintaining my season ticket will give me priority access to MLS (in theory).

    So my conclusion is that if USL already had pro/rel then there would have been no debate for me about renewing my season ticket. And even with my city on cusp of benefiting from a system that allows you to buy your spot in the league, I would still rather it be won on the field. Hey maybe I am the only one but considering that this is still a topic (Hey Hercules Gomez) I don't think I am.
     
  12. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    My local USL team is at the top of my watch list in soccer, more so than high level Euro play if I had to choose. Pro/rel wouldn’t change anything.
     
  13. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because the owners control the league and pro/rel is not good for owners. If the prem didn't have it there is no way they would implement it now. Any breakaway super league won't have true pro/rel. Maybe for the plebs but the patrician clubs will require lots of guaranteed money and the only way they can promise that is if the TV companies are guaranteed your Man Utd's, Real Madrid's and Barcelona's. If your goal is to make the most money than a closed league is the best and only option.

    This post actually got me thinking, what American Sports would be suitable for pro/rel. Even though I am a massive fan of pro/rel I don't think every sport needs it. So here is my quick list of what US sports could benefit from pro/rel and which ones don't need it.

    Should have Pro/rel:
    MLS: Already the international standard, is trying to grow and get attention, relies on attracting new supporters to local clubs, have a vibrant and growing professional lower division.
    College Football: Has more teams than spots available at the top table, already has an ad hoc tiered system within the FBS level, fans mostly based on personal connections to local teams (talking pro/rel within FBS not between FBS and FCS or D1 to D2, that should remain up to schools)

    Could have Pro/Rel:
    MLB: They are already looking to expand but this weakens the quality especially among pitchers, there is already a big discrepancy between small and big markets, heavily reliant on home crowds and local fans following their club. but tradition...
    College Basketball: A lot of the same reasons as college football, not as needed though because the NCAA Tournament gives access to the top for every program.

    Doesn't need Pro/Rel
    NFL: Already a national sport with market saturation, Teams are regional with broad parity allowing almost everyone to have a "home team" that can compete, have college football teams in areas without NFL.
    NBA: Also a national sport that openly markets itself as being as much about entertainment as pure sport. Very much built on the individual players more so than clubs, and has College Basketball below filling in the space of lower divisions.

    NHL was a tweener between doesn't need it and could have, but don't follow the sport enough to know for sure. Alright feel free to rip this apart!
     
  14. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Don't care about other sport but MLS and nhl could have pro/rel do to global appeal
     
  15. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It probably is tough. I wonder who has that problem. Nobody I've ever met.
     
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  16. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    I used to say that pro/rel made no sense for college teams, because traditional rivalries would be at risk if one team has one crappy year.

    But realignment has killed a bunch of traditional rivalries over the years anyways. And geography is becoming less and less important, since we live in a world where Baylor and West Virginia are conference foes, and Rutgers and UCLA soon will be.

    That said...pro/rel? How does that not merely punish juniors because the seniors sucked?

    In any case, even though the conferences themselves are becoming silly, NCAA basketball is nevertheless close to an ideal anti-pro/rel setup. Every single team in D1 can theoretically win the national title. Hundreds of teams pick their own opponents based on who their fans want to see or who makes them the most cash. Every title is settled on the court. And every team has a chance next year with a clean slate.

    Comedy option: every league in the world adopts the pre-BCS college football method of choosing champions by media and coach ballots.
     
  17. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My team is in the 2nd Division here ... in fact, we're the reigning/defending champs. I absolutely support it. I joined the SG from over 1400 miles away when it started BEFORE we even had a professional team in my city. I'm an initial member of the Crocketteers and have done TWO "tours" of supporting our professional clubs in San Antonio (both of them 2nd division) from over 1400 miles away.

    I'm back in San Antonio now and can be much more involved again thankfully. But no, it wasn't just something to talk about when I had to watch my club when the matches STARTED at 10pm on a work night ... or when I was literally the only person in my work space that watched ANY soccer below "top tier" ...

    If the base of "worth" of support for a club is based SOLELY on whether they can move up or down, then you're doing it wrong, period.

    See, this is the crux of differential for many folks. Why don't you care about the league or the Loyal in the same vein as the Chargers or Liverpool? Theoretically Liverpool can go down, but realistically it's quite the stretch. The Chargers can't. So how is it different? Would it matter more if they were in MLS? If so, why? There's no pro/rel in the NFL ... Liverpool is involved in it on a technicality (in reality they ain't) sooooo ?

    I've now seen San Antonio win the NASL and the USL ... and yeah, supporting my club/city to a championship meant just as much (actually more) than when I was a young person watching the Invincible Arsenal squad. Why? Because it's MINE .. it's where I come from and I'm a part of it. I was literally there for it, in the stands and exchanged celebratory hugs/high fives/screams with family/friends/the players. TO ME, the fact that MLS exists/existed above the USL/NASL is irrelevant to what my club did and the experience of it.

    BINGO ... I choose SAFC over MLS matches all the time. When I know I have a jam packed weekend I choose SAFC 9/10 times over Arsenal or whatever other top Euro club I like.
     
  18. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never met an NFL fan that cared about the international appeal of the league. But, it was cool being in London a few years back with flags all over the city for the two NFL teams playing a game there.
     
  19. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a fan of pro/rel in general so would have liked it 20 years ago but my main argument would have been "because I like it". But now with realignment I think it's actually something that would help the sport. It's a lot more palatable for fans to see traditional rivalries and conferences broken apart based on how it's going on the field versus a spreadsheet at conferences TV network HQ,

    It does to a certain extent but everything has winners and losers. In this case those juniors actually get to play a role, I mean they're on the team if they're good they'll get a chance to crack the starting lineup. Not perfect but seems fairer than TV execs making the call, which is the current system.

    Hell yeah and I want games with automatic lock ins like the Bowls. Prem Champs play German Champs in the South of Spain. Spanish Champs play French Champs in Monaco, Italians play at large team from the Balkans. And then all the reporters vote at the end. Forgot pro/rel that's the future.
     
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  20. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    It is certainly 'quite a stretch' for them to go down this year, next year or even in 5 years but (depending on how the club is run) there is no reason why Liverpool can't go down at some point. Nottingham Forest were European Champions in 78/79 and 79/80, if you had suggested that they would go down in 2000 and end up spending 23 years outside the top flight (and 2 years in the 3rd level) people would have thought you mad! Same with Villa, and also same with Everton who were league champions in 84/85 & 86/87, a club that has been in the top flight since 1954.......a club that is under the very real threat of relegation this year. Its obvious that a championship winning club is going to take time before it 'fails', after all teams only develop/change over time players have a 15 year (or so) career and clubs do not sell their best players. Its replacing good players with good players that is the test & Arsenal are the most successful club in history in this regard. Who knows though, eventually, one day in the future they could easily get relegated too.
     
  21. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you can't understand the difference between Liverpool and NottF/Everton ... Then you should just close the door on your way out of this conversation.
     
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  22. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The difference? All 3 clubs have been league champions, two of them have been multiple European Champions and all 3 have been outside the top flight - and its Everton that have been a top flight club the longest! If you don't realise that English football is more than 40 years old then you should just close the door on your way out of this conversation.
     
  23. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    When it comes to promotions Ryan Reynolds is a believer:-

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...sts-Wrexham-make-Premier-League-10-years.html

    Aiming for the Premier League within 10 years, the club did once make it into the 2nd tier (Championship) back in 1979.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...oy-Wrexhams-FA-Cup-draw-Sheffield-United.html

    However after describing the game he just saw as 'one of the most exciting things I've ever seen' maybe its just his adrenaline talking!? Time will tell.
     
  24. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched the show, and the team, town and fans are very endearing. Next time I find myself in the UK, I plan to go to a match.

    Realistically, though, this is a passion project/mid-life crisis for a couple of actors with deep pockets and the ability to make money off of producing a show for a streaming service. On its own, there's no way Wrexham has the financial capabilities to work its way up to the Premier League. Wrexham is going to get promoted out of the National League not due to sporting merit, but because it's got a couple of sugar daddies.
     
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  25. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You can have all the 'suger daddies' in the world but ultimately you ain't getting promoted without 'sporting merit'!
     
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