I actually thought Zendejas looked better once Vasquez came out! They really were not on the same page or clicking at all, but it was at the same time as Jones coming on so just as plausible.
IMO it looked to be more like Jones coming on and Soñora coming off, but it could've been anything. I'm just glad that we saw something positive before he went back to Club America. The three Mexican-Americans in the attacking line (none of them yet definitively committed) are the big gets in this camp, if you ask me. Those are the three most ready to help us in the foreseeable future. I believe that Soñora has more to give than what he showed last night, and I would like to see some of that against Colombia at some point, but he didn't really impact last night's game well.
Yes, of course it is. We were one of the most cross-heavy teams at the World Cup -- yes, crosses are very much part of it. One could argue that was dumb as our strikers are not good at exactly what Vazquez did, but that is absolutely part of it. Same with Cowell making runs up the left side. We effectively played with a flipped field on the wingers -- Zendejas played the Pulisic role of coming inside, with Gressel & Jones trying to play the wider, more direct fullback that Jedi generally plays. This all makes sense -- Cowell is much more of a Weah-type; Zendejas is an inverted winger who dribbles, like Pulisic, Gressel is a crosser and Jones does those baseline things with his speed. When Gressel couldn't really handle getting forward, the outside collapsed in on Zendejas -- Gressel just isn't fast enough to be a fullback asked to do that. So Jones worked out better. But the system isn't nearly as rigid in that matter to player roles as people want to make out. Gressel played a Shaq Moore game with better crossing and worse defense. Jones looked a lot more like a righty Jedi. (Tolkin would have made more sense on the left than Gomez. Gomez struggled but he also couldn't do a lot of what makes him capable as Cowell was often occupying that role. Tolkin as a LB-Dest style would have allowed Pomykal to push up and play more with Cowell). Positional play is about spacing and movement, and making sure the team is both spaced out and moving to create opportunities as well as making sure the team is ready to defend and counterpress. A number of our players really struggled with the latter part, not shockingly. It's also somewhat of a read and react system, and Serbia played very narrow defensively, and loaded up the midfield. Most teams play this way, and we've struggled to impact things from the wide spaces, which is a valid complaint. Cowell was great, but this was just slightly a lower level of competition than the World Cup. But both Cowell and the goal were well within what you'd run in the "system." Both are actually somewhat staples, especially Cowell's movement. ---------------------------------------- In terms of service to the 9, a lot of it is on the 9. We had a lot of chances this game and aside from the goals, the strikers were pretty dire. Lots of missed opportunities. I do think there's a few things about how Berhalter runs the system that creates offensive issues. Our positional play isn't very rotational or fluid. In positional play, players are supposed to occupy certain spaces and movements relative to each other in order to stretch the defense, create passing lanes, etc. In more advanced versions of it, the positions and such remain in space, but the players move fluidly between them -- backfilling each other as needed. The other advantage of positional play is that is very valuable in counterpressing, pressing and stopping counters. Players are always in position to get the ball back quickly. Our version was always more solid than dynamic. We are good at pressing, stopping counters, etc, on defense. On offense, we could progress the ball and we were actually pretty good at generating quality advantages. We got the ball to Pulisic and Dest and our other best players in dangerous positions. We were sporadically good at using off ball movement to generate holes in the defense. Where we never got to in the "system" was a level of comfort or fluidity where the players were making quick enough decisions on ball movement consistently nor where the movements on players was consistently right enough that we could rotate players through positions without losing the defense. That rotation is some of the essence of total football -- when everyone can do everything, players can switch and confuse the other team without loss of effectiveness. The speed of play obviously reduces effectiveness, but the latter reduces the ability to create overloads or numerical advantage in addition to quality advantages. People tend to proscribe these things to "a system," as if anyone wants slower ball movement, etc. The reality is that we never got to a level of executional cohesion that allowed for consistent rapid ball movement or player rotations. Where the blame lies could be poor coaching, could be the constant pool changes and injuries, could a shortened cycle and no lead up to the World Cup. When I look at what we did versus the 9 in light of all that, there's three parts: our 9s aren't very good; we lacked executional cohesion in the final third across all players for a variety of reasons; we absolutely chose to push our attack wide and keep our CMs out of the attack for defensive reasons. Some of that is the system, some of that is the strikers and some of that is somewhat undefined underperformance. But a cross from an attacking RB to a CF off a turnover is literally what we were trying to do.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I sometimes don't know where observations to the contrary come from, because this is a simple observation that requires little in the way of specific soccer knowledge.
I've gone through this with a number of teams in different sports. Anytime there is a system, if something bad happens, the system is holding the players back. Anything good happens, the players have broken out of the system and did it outside those constraints, etc. It's a pretty common fan occurrence. Any system or bit of coaching has pluses and minuses and discussing them is one of the thing I enjoy most about sports, but it is always amazing to me how this particular perspective is on any system. Offensively, we started out with a decent chunk of complexity and interplay. Over the course of the three+ years, we lost a bunch of it, at times reverting to mostly "get it to Pulisic." Which, ironically, is what a lot of people want. That said, I'm not particularly attached to this system nor am I convinced Berhalter could teach it that well or could work the fine points well enough at this level. But like ... when it works, we don't need to pretend it didn't work.
Normally, I don't watch games this early in the cycle anymore for multiple reasons. The players try too hard, haven't planed enough with each other, and a lot of subs in the second half means you usually only see about 45-60 minutes of decent soccer to make any observations/judgements. However, I decided to watch the game and was pleasantly surprised. Both teams played well in the first half, and while their was fragmented play at times, it was generally a flowing game. Since I don't follow MLS teams as much as in the past or track all youth players who are playing internationally (too many of them which is a good problem), it was good to see some of the players being mentioned in BS. I watched on HBOMax and the production wasn't the greatest (hard to hear and choppy). Random thoughts on the game: I agreed with Martino and really liked Neal in the first half and thought that he was probably our best player. Then, he has a major screw up. Still even with him playing for LAG, I want to see him more. Best game that I have ever seen Cowell play. Why didn't he start all the games with the Quakes last year? Well, he was inconsistent and MLS Teams learned how to defend him. Hopefully, this game shows that he has learned and adjusted. I was disappointed in the midfield play. They didn't help in transition and too many give aways. Neither Sonora, Morris, or Pomykal showed enough to warrant any near term interest. Vasquez scored a nice goal, but overall, was poor. His other good chance was taken poorly, he should have checked in more with the midfield, and his movement was average at best. Zendejas interested me. I'm a sucker for quick, skilled players. He was too quit in the first half, but was left wanting more. On my watch list moving forward. Slonina was a disappointment. Not that the goals were his fault and he made one great save, but his positioning was poor and his decision making wasn't the best. I thought the Serbian GK outplayed him. Stopping jumping walls or if you jump, jump straight up. Zimmerman! Subs were Ok and bad, but nothing to write home about. Hoppe and Long (poor clearance which led to the second goal) showed nothing. Williamson started badly and got better, but not enough. In the end, I may actually watch the Columbia game.
I've been recently saying this myself. I hope the next guy in charge (and I guess Hudson in the mean time) work on reducing the role of the strikers. I think almost the whole 9 pool would fare better with less involvement in the build up. Whether it Vazquez, Dike, Pefok, Sargent, Pepi, Wright... I think all of them would do better if their only purpose was to turn in chances created by others. Instead we've been trying to use them to create chances for Pulisic & other wingers and it hasn't worked great. I do think Pepi and Sargent are two guys with the potential to be the forwards we need for that, but they aren't there yet and still might not be by 2026. Even less so by potential 2024 Copa games.
Cowell seemed to have that take no prisoners attitude like Dempsey, Mathis, Davies. I definitely would like to see him play again.
It is so wild to think about but you know the forward who would have been perfect with this crop of players? Ching……hold up play alone would hsve been huge just to send runners through
Yoko wasn’t untalented…she was an avante garde trailblazer for the category “shrill, unsettling, social perpendicularity”
This is worth repeating. This is the heart of what worked and didn't work under Berhalter over the past two years, since the Covid re-start. A really good counter-example to this from the World Cup, if anybody remembers this particular match, was Croatia vs Canada. Herdman's Canada came out to press Croatia into submission, and in the first couple of minutes it was working perfectly. Davies got his goal and Croatia were totally on their heels. Then they figured out their rotations on the pitch to progress the ball through the press, and then once that was accomplished it was easy for them to play in combinations to expose the relative lack of mobility and numbers Canada had in the midfield and their subpar defense. Our guys would've had a much harder time figuring that out. In the friendly against Japan, when Japan were backing off of the CBs and taking away our passing lanes, we never figured it out. They just kept playing straight into what Japan wanted them to do.
He’s impressive. He’s not only a great athlete, but he’s smart. He and Zendejas had an immediate understanding. We need our coaches to realize that players from similar backgrounds have similar understanding and expectations of where to be on the the field and when to be there. Hopefully we bring in a coach who watches the game in Spanish language who can recognize this and make the most of it in our player pool and lineups. Its time to integrate the national team.
Cowell is legit...amazing athlete, always just needed increase the composure. So stoked to see him perform the way he did. Cracks me up when I see people on this site rating him so low on their U20 depth chart. We have no one like him with the speed and strength...future is bright for him! My prediction - he crushes it at the U20 World Cup and then moves to Europe and SJ pockets some huge $$$.
When Hoppe came on the scene, I was convinced he was going to compete for first team minutes. I was obviously very wrong. Hope he gets things back on track.
I would x guys out for weird camps and games like this. I think you take the positives, and wait and see w/the negatives. If Pomykal continues w/the good play from last year, bring him in, if he gets hurt again or falls off, you don't. It reminds me of olympic qualifying in '21: nobody should have been eliminated from contention because of poor performances there, bad roster, poor coach, and a predictable mess. In this case it's a short camp, emergency sub in coach (w/a terrible track record). I'm not x'ing out anyone for underwhelming last night, I'm pleasantly surprised by some performances and wait and see for other guys, beyond that, I wouldn't make any hard decisions on anybody. There's not a ton you can learn from these in general, and when the camps are short, and everythings muddled like this, I take the positives and ignore the negatives (until a broader case can be made on them).
This is how Davies felt about him more or less. When Davies talked about him he wanted the USMNT to take a look at him down the stretch (I think), but he definitely felt like there were some clear issues about the little things (playing balls to teammates, holding up the ball) and cleaning up his touch which were genuine issues. But he was also kind of won over by his skill as a finisher. In the fullness of time, I think he can still be on the periphery unless we get Balogun because all of our strikers have issues that might be defining: Sargent: He's doing great but being played out of position by former coach and Norwich being god awful if they were promoted harming his confidence. Wright: limitations if we don't play a counterattacking style. Pepi: Level of competition (thought I don't care) and refinement and development. Ferreira: He's not a striker Pefok: Language/locker room fit, difficulties beyond shark in the box target man stuff, lack of pace. Balogun: Would prefer England. Hoppe: Career circling drain. Probably the one major thing that could really help Vasquez is the fact that unless we use false 9's, we are unlikely to have clarity at striker beyond Pepi and Sargent for quite a while. Wright and Pefok seem really contigent on system, Ferreira has failed the test repeatedly etc, so there's going to be a potential opening for third striker all the time going forward for a while unless we do decide to look at Weah, or do use Reyna or Tillman as a False 9 etc (and I definitely think Tillman is relevant, though it would waste some of his skills).
just the size speed snd athleticism alone is going to get someone. Reims should have jumped at the chance
I haven’t watched the game hut heard some guys (e.g Herc Gomez) mentioned they still played GGG ball. I’m wondering What exactly showed the way they still played that system?
Patient build up and trying to get the fullbacks all the way up the field to create a numbers mismatch. Serbia packed the middle so fair enough, not much to do through the middle, but the build up was pretty toothless as usual.
Basically the vast majority of attacks come off the edge and and the Backs are heavily involved via overloads with the wingers. It is way too predictable IMO and really requires an elite clean-up CDM like Adams to help break up counters when a plethora of crosses end up getting cleared by the D. I tire of our attacks always coming off the edges.... but even worse is the apparent inability of anyone that can consistently hit the net. Now, the only goal we did score did come from a cross from the RB but it came after a pressure/turnover so there was space between the CBs for Vasquez to get into. When the opposing team is parking the bus like Serbia did once they pounced on two gaffs by our CBs then it becomes way too easy to defend the crosses from the outside. We need to develop more players that can unlock Ds w/ a key pass or dribbling skill. At least Cowell really showed the ability to do the latter last night. He was electric. Too bad he hit the post twice in a minute. At any rate, these winter camps are more about identifying talent to add to the senior and U23 Olympic Teams. Although Neal had one terrible gaff that led to the 2nd goal he was pretty darn good the rest of the time. So despite the costly error his stock still went up in my book. I don't really get most of the negative comments about Slonina's play. Neither goal was his fault and he made one tremendous save. Still so young... but I am hopeful. Others that increased their stock for me were Cowell and Zendejas.... Lastly, even though he disappeared for long stretches the goal Vasquez scored was a beauty.
So do you see this liability as more a product of lack of reps/health/cohesiveness: The MMA Midfield only became an auto "thing" in late 2021, they literally had only a handful of reps that October, November, and January and its worth noting McKennie missed 7 of 14 WC qualifiers and played sparingly coming off injury in the June window of '22. Musah missed Window 1, and missed the September tune ups before the WC. Tyler Adams was available for just about everything during this era, but also missed nearly every relevant game in late '18, all of '19 and '20. So basically the MMA Midfield: Vs Jamaica Vs Costa Rica Vs Mexico Vs El Salvador @CANADA. That's it. No other long term starts together before the WC, even in June, McKennie didn't play a lot, just 63 out of the 180 vs Morocco and Uruguay. If you look at the Wing Forwards, it goes without saying: Pulisic, Weah, Aaronson all missed time. Weah missed window 1, Pulisic missed window 2, Reyna missed window 2, 3 and 4, Aaronson missed window 5. Dest missed windows 3 and 5, but Jedi was basically healthy. So look at that man? What do you think it is? Technically, its more than reasonable to argue that they just don't think/make decisions quickly enough for now, maybe because they're young, or maybe also because they just don't have that piece. But, it's gotta be relevant that the only overlapping windows where the CM was actually whole was 5 of 20 matches from September 2021 through september 2022. It's gotta be relevant that the big 4 of wing forwards all missed at least one window, and that Dest missed 2. How much is lack of reps and familiarity, how much is the players themselves? I'm not sure. Curious what you think.
Since this match involved players from both teams WAY down the list as far as the 5th or 6th choices at their positions we learned nothing except it is clear that the Serbian players come from a MUCH better coaching background than the vast majority from the USA. That is the physical play and individual skills were pretty even but the Serbians showed much better soccer awareness that the USA players. That is they were often at least trying to execute the correct plays or defensive actions. Well one dead giveaway was the number of times the USA stopped an attack or failed to start one by making slow, useless and wasteful back passes or sideways passes. They were trying to be "safe" rather than taking a chance in order to attack. That is the heart of the Berhalter system. I think that "system" has had a "STEMI" type heart attack so it no longer has a functioning heart. The team on the field last night mostly played exactly how Gregg Berhalter would have wanted and, no surprise, they lost. The USA system is designed to minimize danger and it does that. It reduces the danger of the USA scoring quite well. It is hoped that the "new" manager will implement a SIMPLE system that actually allows the USA's attacking players to attack. We will never rise above the swamp we have been wallowing in unless we come up with a way to attack smarter and much more often.