Transfer Portal

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by 2233soccer, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. 2233soccer

    2233soccer Member

    United States
    Sep 13, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    can a student-athlete waive this? It is already challenging in the transfer portal and now it seems like it makes it almost impossible for transfers to happen. If the new school is now required to pay the current scholarship it seems coaches will be very hesitant to take in a transfer.
     
  2. SoccerMaster2022

    SoccerMaster2022 New Member

    FC Cincinnati
    United States
    Feb 10, 2022
    According to the document I posted earlier it cannot be waived.
     
  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    The clearest part of that statement is the word “if”.
    And only refers to the aid offered at the new school, not what was offered at the old school.
     
  4. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    701 D1s in the portal. 442 are Not 5-years.

    Transfer Portal is interesting. The entire team from a place called Holy Names showed up on the same day. So I looked it up. D2 in Oakland, CA is throwing in the towel. Sad but this is not going to be rare. Higher Ed is having quite a "correction".

    https://hnu.edu/news/spring-2023-final-semester-for-hnu-athletics/
     
  5. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Transferring is good. Ashlynn Serepca, formerly of Virginia and once a top 25 recruit, is lighting it up at Alabama with an assist and a goal today vs Duke. Second leading scorer on the team this year, I think.

    She was given every opportunity to succeed at Virginia. Enrolled at UVa a semester early. Got lots of run time, but never cracked the starting lineup. I didn't think she had the speed nor the strength to play upper Div I soccer. And here she is leading her team to the college cup.

    Sometimes the fit just isn't right and players should have the right, and easy access, to go look elsewhere. Hats off to Ashlynn.
     
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  6. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    "sometimes" is the operative word in that post but thanks for sharing.

    I looked and she played in 65 games at UVA! You're assuming that she would not have been in the starting 11 in year 4 or 5 there and was that even the reason she left? If that's really the case then it is a good example of this idea of "fit" and whether or not the competitive situation meets the needs of the athlete. Usually it means 'where am I on the depth chart at my position?' and so what is my path to the startling lineup? or at least being an important sub? If a younger better player shows up playing your position, that can be a big bombshell. Esp for keepers or another specific position like a center back or target forward. Does the player have the courage to leave and is their ego telling them they NEED to play more? What is the player sacrificing and is all of that worth it?

    Curious if you know if the UVA staff was helpful? Do you know if she earned a UVA degree? It's a big consideration for some comparing a degree from Alabama vs UVA. But if she did earn a UVA degree and then decided to keep playing in grad school at bama, I think it's actually an awesome example.

    Every case and every player and every story is unique. Quite a lot of players that hit the competitive wall just stop playing. Or just do enough to keep their scholarship. That is, when they realized their path to the lineup has been cut off by usually new or younger players that are better (or the coach making the decisions thinks they are better!)
     
  7. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think it was fit. I don't think she was ever going to start. She didn't play wing as well as Steve Swanson wanted her to and I don't think she ever would have made it as the central striker. She played a lot of games but I think she was destined to be just one of two or three subs brought in to relieve the starters.

    Ash did graduate. She had enrolled a semester early, spring of what would have been her senior year in high school. She was apparently a model teammate and she did have Swanson's full blessing when she told him she was transferring (or so he said to me.)
     
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  8. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    I appreciate you sharing. It is a good story but there have always been these good stories. Maybe she had a plan and so didn't use the portal to get 're-recruited' so to speak.
    I think it's funny, or crazy, how some coaches view their players entering the portal as some kind of sin. A stain on their program. Other coaches don't really care so much. I mean Pitt has had 5-10 each year since the portal started and they seem to be doing fine. I don't know about the culture there but the results have been impressive. Almost like a pro team that just uses free-agency instead of the draft to move players. Times are changing...
     
  9. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    Decided to take a quick look since the D1 activity has slowed. The 45 day window is closed at this point but I believe 5th year players are exempt from the time constraints and also if there is a coaching change.

    916 D1 Women's Soccer SAs in the portal
    576 are undergrads, so 340 are 5th-year or graduate transfers

    I believe the number was about 500 at mid-year last year so 576 would be about a 15% increase in undergraduate mid-year transfers.

    I'm not doing a breakdown of conferences and schools but if you have access, someone could of course.
     
  10. Sledhead

    Sledhead Member

    Atalanta
    United States
    Jul 14, 2019
    Is there any way to determine how many of the 500 in the portal at midyear last year successfully found a new home this past season?
     
  11. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    #286 Eddie K, Jan 9, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2023
    I'm not doing that research but I'd guess someone could. The NCAA does a survey of portal kids and has published the results but you could google each name and try to find out what their disposition was. You would have kids who didn't transfer and kept playing, some who didn't transfer but quit playing, some who transferred to then play or maybe not play and I guess some who may have just left school. It would be hard to find out what caused someone to not be on a roster at all and determine where they are enrolled.

    Of course you could just look at 1st-year students for example or maybe do a statistical sample and be able to make some inferences. I don't know if anyone has done it.
     
  12. Sledhead

    Sledhead Member

    Atalanta
    United States
    Jul 14, 2019
    I was honestly hoping someone may have already done that research and put it out there. Figuring that out sounds like a lot of work. LOL
     
  13. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    Agree, I would love to see some research and it would inform those SA's considering transferring for sure. There has to be a Master's Thesis or something out there from an intern at the NCAA or something. Survey results are helpful but never comprehensive. I think the link to that NCAA survey research is in this thread and should be easy to find on their site. The big take-away I got was that it's very hard to 'move up' or even laterally by transferring and that the majority of transfers pay more for college when transferring and are leaving for a negative reason (unhappy with their first situation). None of that is a surprise but I think you (and I) would like to know one year or one season later, did they find a better competitive fit by transferring? Even that is hard to define. If an SA moves from mid-major D1 to nationally competitive D2 or D3 and plays a lot more and wins alot more games, at a higher net cost, is that a success?

    It was interesting in the FB NC game how many players mentioned from GA, but alot from TCU, had started college somewhere else. One TCU player came from GA! How does he feel today I wonder...
     
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  14. Sledhead

    Sledhead Member

    Atalanta
    United States
    Jul 14, 2019
    Did they find a fit a year later, and / or did they end up out of college soccer 100% because they couldn't find a new home their original team didn't want them back? The later would be just as interesting IMO.
     
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  15. 2233soccer

    2233soccer Member

    United States
    Sep 13, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole transfer portal process is a risky crap shoot for the SA. They can't have up front meaningful conversations with other coaches until they have entered the portal and then if they don't get a better situation they are screwed because it is too late to stay where you are. I remember reading somewhere some stats about this but I don't recall where. I think it was some % less than 50% of those in the transfer portal that found a new situation. Now that the new school has to cover the previous scholarship it seems like it will be even more difficult for SA's to get a new situation.
     
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  16. Lou T

    Lou T New Member

    miami
    United States
    Jul 25, 2022
    I'm pretty sure the new school has to guarantee the new schools offer, not the previous school.
     
  17. Lou T

    Lou T New Member

    miami
    United States
    Jul 25, 2022
    The players I know have had about a 50% quit rate after going through the portal, even when attempting to move down a notch or 2. Small sample size, but seem in line with what one hears.
     
  18. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Interesting to look at the transfers at this point.

    Huge influx into a few schools:
    5 transfers into Maryland, Kentucky, and Lipscomb
    4 transfers into Texas and Minnesota
    Then a couple of schools with 3 coming in (Miss State & N. Texas) which then accounts for almost half (29 of the 63) of the transfers posted on TDS (which may be a little delayed.) 6 Schools have accepted 2 transfers, which leaves 22 schools accepting one transfer in (so far).

    Looking at transfers out, 5 schools have seen 2 players depart and then 53 schools with a single transfer out.

    The most interesting transfer to me is Ellie Walbruch leaving UCLA for BYU. As far as I know, BYU will have all of its starters coming back next season and Wallbruch will certainly be competing for a slot.
     
  19. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    @Soccerhunter Thank you for that kind of analysis.

    UMD is interesting. No surprise there is some roster churn but it's become a whirlwind as Nemzer tries to get some traction. She's been there one calendar year and 3 undergrads in that portal leaving after her first Fall with the 5 arriving you mentioned. They had a GK transfer in and then out in less than 8 months. There's a borderline with "desperate" in there somewhere.

    My take is that the players should have maximum flexibility when these coaching changes occur so glad that is mostly the case.

    This limitation was just added to deter multiple transfers:
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...me-transfers-to-curb-ballooning-portal-usage/
     
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  20. soccerinthestreets

    soccerinthestreets New Member

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 12, 2022
    I can get on board with the Georgia and Virginia transfers. But bringing in kids from UMBC, Radford and Richmond... I'm not sure they will help you get more wins in the BIG10!
     
  21. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    I do not know first hand what their "take" is at UMD right now but it could be something like, "hey, we need to be good in the Big10 and here's a chance for you at a great P5 school. Come in and spend a year here and we'll see how you do. The portal will be there for you if it doesn't work out".

    It is being pretty honest and is basically what BB and FB coaches are saying. Transferring has become like a 1 semester or 1 year tryout.

    IMHO, I don't want to see women's soccer go in that direction but there are going to be examples out there and maybe UMD is one now. Pitt has been doing it for a few years and finally has found a more stable roster and they were good and Waldrum got his contract extension. I think Nemzer is following that model and will also be hoping for more wins and that extension at some point. The churn or grind is just kinda ugly frankly, esp in these days of social media where everything is out there. UMD keeps saying "welcome home" on their transfer posts when kids are from NJ or VA??

    Transfers need to read and understand those new portal rules carefully. These apply to a 2nd transfer starting in the Fall of 23. Of course there can and will be appeals.

    "A player can receive immediate eligibility if they have a physical injury or mental health condition that pushed them to transfer from a school. Additionally, the NCAA will consider "exigent circumstances" that could force a player to leave an institution -- like sexual assault or abuse. No other factors will be considered, including academic considerations or playing time."
     
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  22. Siddhartha

    Siddhartha Member

    Leeds
    United States
    Aug 11, 2022
    With the new transfer rules, wouldn't you be surprised to see coaches take this approach? I would be. I mean if a player transfers in...and it doesn't work out....the new school is still on the hook for whatever athletic financial package was offered / agreed to with the transfer athlete. That's regardless of how the coach feels about the the player's contribution or even whether they quit the sport. Schools are only off the hook if a player transfers again, graduates, or goes pro.

    That seems like a major deterrent for coaches to bring players in on any real athletic scholarship money in a sport that has significant differences from NCAA Football and Basketball. Players in those 2 sports (especially football) are usually on full ride scholarships and the coaches have plenty of scholarships to develop and maintain a full competitive roster. NIL money for those 2 sports only augments the coffers at their disposal to attract talent.

    Seems to me that scholarship limitations and lack of significant NIL in women's soccer could make "missing" on a player or worse yet, several players, and being tethered so stringently would carry significant downside risk.

    Or maybe I'm completely off base. I'm certainly no expert.
     
  23. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    Good points.
    Starting in the Fall, those new transfer rules will be made very clear to D1 kids entering the portal. Likely, there will be some information going out to them when the D1 'window' opens in May. That is, you get one freebie, then the 2nd transfer is going to have to be justified in some detail to get the eligibility waiver. Not sure when exactly they will start 'counting' transfers for the rule but it is intended to be a deterrent to the frequent transfer or 'shopping around' activity out there.

    On the financials, this is the first year with the new grant-in-aid commitment rule so my assumption is that schools like MD (or KY) with new coaches and good budgets may just decide to allocate 1 or 2 scholarships worth of money to these speculative transfers OR they just aren't promising any money in year 1. Part of their proposition could be: at the end of next season, we'll evaluate your situation and expect to have some $$ available to you going forward. They could verbally commit those dollars up front or take a 'wait and see' approach if they can still get the transfer w/o the scholarship commitment. Some coaches use these "incremental" verbal scholarship offers all the time. "we don't have money for you in year 1 but in year 2 if you do this, we can find this much $"

    Living out your D1 Dreams at a P5 school is priceless......right??
     
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  24. supercell

    supercell New Member

    Aug 19, 2021

    UMD has been a curiosity of mine too. I can understand the idea that mining the transfer portal might net a quicker path to a moderately competitive level than recruiting and developing. And I can see, given UMD's record in the conference, how a new coach would be motivated to improve the team quickly. I don't see how it's a sustainable practice though since it puts a cap on your performance ceiling, particularly when you have Nemzer's approach of building locally from MD and neighboring states. She is likely still firmly in the "build from the portal" phase though.

    Additionally, I have heard that she has told returning players that their spots on the team are not guaranteed but this flies in the face of the P5 guarantee on athletic scholarships so I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe, as Eddie K's post above suggests, she doesn't promise much to freshmen or incoming transfers so the guarantees don't really apply.

    In any event, I would guess that the environment there must be pretty foul as a result. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
     
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  25. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Sometimes - not often, but sometimes - it's a case of these kids being well above the level of their teammates at these schools, and they really can come in and fit in right away. An example would be Emily Moxley, who transfered to UNC from UNC Wilmington and has contributed consistently. And I know a few P5 coaches who tried HARD to get Audrey Harding from UNCW, too, but she chose not to transfer.
     

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