Electric Vehicles discussion (was NJ bans Tesla dealerships)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by puttputtfc, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    I found this really interesting. Musk is planning a switch. Well not so much that, he does it all the time. Regardless of all his comments and put downs on hydrogen (he almost called it “pedo technology”)

    Now he’s trying to catch up with Bezos in moving to hydrogen.
    For years I’ve been interested in the hydrogen technology, now it seems to have made some sort of breakthrough in costs.

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/raul...l-switch-to-activity-6915777895625863168-4tJF
     
  2. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to be that guy, but that post on LinkedIn is ten months old, which puts it from about April of last year. I'm pretty sure it was on April 1. The link to the article is no longer available. I'm pretty sure it was an April Fool's prank. Tesla is not switching to hydrogen.
     
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  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And people are pissed. Well, the ones who just bought their Tesla.

    Get over it, people.
     
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  4. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    How's the ID4 treating you?

    I am endlessly curious about range. What type of range are you seeing?

    On my EV6, the range has tumbled by 30% in Winter, from 270 miles (3.5 miles/kw) to about 200 miles (about 2.6 miles/kw). The battery heater saps a lot of power

    Still pretty great, though.
     
  5. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #705 JamesA, Jan 14, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
    I'm probably not a great test case. I live in Victoria, BC and it's been a solid 8 to 10 Celsius most days here. So, pretty mild.

    And, Canadian ID4s have a heat pump too.

    I charge to 80% as recommended by VW. I tend to average about 18 kwh per 100km. It's been really fantastic for me and very efficient given the size. But again, I have a very favorable area for EVs.

    I love my heated windowshield too. That feature is mint up here.

    Edit: I should clarify, that works out to about 3.5 miles per kw as my current "winter range".
     
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  6. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    I don’t have a horse in this race. There’s no way I would buy either, I’m interested in which technology would take over.
    This video from 3 weeks ago certainly looks and sounds like musk, suggesting hydrogen power packs to provide power for the electric driven vehicles.
    The HESLA!

     
  7. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    @usscouse
    Here’s another video from my favorite science communicator addressing hydrogen

    TLDR: Hydrogen is not going to be the solution.
     
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  8. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know who is going to all the trouble of making slick videos on Youtube, but I know people who work at Tesla. Tesla is not making hydrogen cars. Like, never. There's a lot of effort going on here to try to convince people otherwise, and I don't know why, but it's not happening.
     
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  9. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    #709 usscouse, Jan 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
    That was a good one. You almost had me there almost watching a 20 minute paid message. Someone had an axe to grind.

    Toyota don’t seem to be listening either, with their cars or heavy trucking.

    https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

    like I say, I’m not in the market for either but the war of words and technology is interesting.
    The perks they are offering inc. a 6 year free fuel supply sounds an interesting inducement. People who buy these cars would trade them in in that time.
     
  10. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Perhaps not? But Elon is not a stable genius like Trump so I’d wait and see.
    Toyota are making pretty slick messages though.

    https://pressroom.toyota.com/trucki...fuel-cells-as-a-step-toward-a-cleaner-planet/
     
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  11. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Toyota is all in on hydrogen. And that's why you see Mirais everywhere, unlike Ford, VW, Audi, BMW battery cars, etc. Oh, wait, I've never actually seen a Mirai on the road, but I see all those others on a regular basis, because the infrastructure for hydrogen fueling is decades behind both gas and electric. It's not clear if Toyota will keep pushing hydrogen because they're falling way behind by sticking with hydrogen. Or maybe, their bet will pan out and a decade or two from now we'll all be driving hydrogen and laughing at those dumbass battery cars.

    Anyways, if you think Tesla is going with hydrogen, you're misinformed. There's a lot of fake news on the Internet - you don't have to help spread it. As is generally the case, debunking fake news takes a lot more effort than posting fake news, so I'm not going to watch the video you posted and point-by-point refute it, I'm just telling you that Tesla is not going to be switching to hydrogen.
     
  12. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Huh? No. Her axe to grind is against string theorists and particle theorists wanting to build a bigger, better particle collider.

    That video is sponsored by NordVPN. Not sure what they have to do with alternative fuels…
    Hydrogen might have some applications, but Toyota ended up making the wrong bet.

    Hydrogen allows off grid energy with quick replacement.
    • Abundant, but usually bound up in molecules (H2O and methane) which requires a bunch of energy to break apart and then isolate the hydrogen. Most think you’d need to power this with nuclear to make it worthwhile as a clean energy. (There’s a wind/solar project going on in TX to generate hydrogen.)
    • Requires thick-walled tanks with a special corrosion resistant interior coating for high pressure storage (hydrogen gas, because it is such a small molecule, seeps into pretty much any material). It ends up being about the same weight/energy potential as fossil fuels because of this.
    • The reaction membrane needs to be built out of iridium and platinum. Those are very precious and rare, and those membranes wear out. These minerals are found in particular deposits located in South Africa, Zimbabwe, and…. Russia.
    • The “exhaust” is water, which is fantastic, except when it is freezing cold outside. Then it makes instant ice in the reaction membrane and shuts down. You can design it to preheat and keep warm, but that power has got to come from the vehicle, so… not great.
    Hydrogen probably has some viable commercial use aside from rockets. Most suggest rail or shipping, where refueling isnt done often and large tanks can be used. But even commuter buses have shown (as of yet) not to be great because refueling is a bitch.
     
  13. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I bathe in hydrogen daily so I'm a bigly proponent. :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno… the price drop equates to a $20k price difference since it drops the model 3 below the $7k tax credit. That’s a serious chunk of change for people that bought the car just before the price drop.
     
  15. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sadly, my ID4 is only getting 2.5m per kw winter driving. But I’m not on the current software since they need to swap the battery out. Once that’s done, it should give me some additional range, but pretty sure I won’t be getting 3.5 mile per kw
     
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  16. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC


    I'm really not the average test case though I think. I live in the mildest place in winter north of Oregon. I rarely drive long highway distance and rarely get over 100kmph. Plus I'm on 3.1 with a heat pump.
     
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  17. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    I still got $10k off ( $7500 + the $2500 Colorado tax incentive) so am not that pissed… it could have been worse. I could have taken delivery before late December…

    but yeah, this cut was 20% which is excessive, 5-10% I can see not pissing people off. Part of the problem working there was dealing with repeated scenarios similar to this where us worker bees on the front line had to deal with angry customers.

    It got to the point where I just didn’t even try to defend the company, I just openly agreed and sided with the customer and bashed whatever policy change it was because 90% of them made no sense…
     
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  18. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Denver, CO
    This is a minimum on the credit? I thought it was a high end cap of $80k only where it didn’t apply.
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I understand, the IRA has a $48k limit on the $7k credit.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ouch! even bus fleets are inconvenient.

    I knew cars were not going to work, but I had hopes for Buses.
     
  21. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    The bus thing seems like something we *should* be able to fix. Germany hasn’t really revealed/detailed why it is ditching them.
     
  22. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
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  23. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Just before the Covid hit I visited Shanghai.
    I was really impressed with the way the city was being cleaned up. They’d dredged and cleaned up the waterways and planted ‘millions’ of trees along the banks and along the freeways. Rows of them 6 rows deep where they could.

    I was visiting my daughter’s family and the Shanghai American School there.
    I was totally impressed with the efforts of the school. As part of their clean up they bought nearly 200 Electric busses. Really impressive rides smooth and comfortable. No belching of black smoke or rumblings of diesel or fumes.

    Computerized tracking of the busses and passengers. Put these yellow cheap hogs they use here to shame.
    894AE4DE-4A94-466F-9391-086C5798D21A.jpeg

    At SAS, we manage the largest school bus fleet in Shanghai – over 200 buses total, 95% of which are electric. Bus monitors record every student boarding and exit. And parents are able to track their child’s bus location with our customized app. But perhaps most impressively, in addition to safely making over 400 stops across the city each day, our buses also serve as communities unto themselves.
     
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  24. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I think that electric buses in the US are mainly held back by production. I think pretty much every municipality would go for them, but the batteries and vehicles just can't get built quickly enough.
     
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