PBP: Copa do Mundo - Qatar 2022: Brasil vs Croácia | QF - 9 de Dez, 2022 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by celito, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    If Tite and Neymar both wanted those players not to go far into Croatia's side of the field, then why has Tite been so ruthlessly and cruelly and even sadistically condemned by these so-called pundits from Brazil's sports journalistic corps?
     
  2. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Considering they trained roughly the same group of players and Tite picked up exactly where Dunga left off, I'd say yes. His results were vastly superior. But if we believe the rumours reported at the time of players boycotting Dunga, then maybe not. Dunga did have an excellent start in his second stint, 100% win ratio in 9 matches. They were all friendlies as Celito mentioned, but we had wins against 2014 runner up Argentina in 2014, and future WC champions France inside France. They are still only friendlies but since one of the main criticisms around our prep these days is that we don't face enough quality opponents, those wins were at least worth something.
     
  3. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Makes sense. But yeah, I am not sure how much I should buy into friendlies.
     
  4. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Guys, I know this is a little off topic here, but has anyone here noticed that Di Maria's goal against you guys in the Copa America final was mildly offside? His head was definitely offside, and it was wrongly not called.
     
  5. wingfromhk

    wingfromhk Member

    Apr 21, 2006
    Fred never had the option to pass the ball, it was Pedro who tried to pass the ball to Fred. You can say it was Pedro's mistake, but what I want to point out is, there is a reason why Pedro's default mode was not to pass the ball backwards, and the reason is that the team lacked the ability to maintain possession.

    There were mistakes made in those few seconds, but the team did not try to attack, and Fred was not making insane decisions. Instead, the situation just illustrated one fundamental weakness of them team.

     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Tite was better than Dunga. However, I still would say that 2010 was the best team we had post-2006. That team was humming as an unit. It may not have been the best in terms of talent on paper, but it was the best as an unit IMO.
     
  7. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
  8. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Dunga isn’t a better coach than Tite but at the same time Dunga doesn’t have the same level of experience that Tite has. Dunga was also the one that initially started Renato Augusto as a deep lying playmaker and Tite followed suit.

    With Dunga we can only play one way, he was more stubborn with his tactics and player personnel. Also, Dunga had beef with certain players for stupid reason.
     
  9. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I haven't rewatched the game yet to talk more about it. I will at some point and then talk more about it (obviously we lost our shape when Croatia scored). Here is a video of the tactics employed in the game.

     
  10. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    When Fred wins the initial header (prior to the counter attack by Pedro), he is just beside Antony with Pedro being on the other side. This was beyond the center circle in Croatia's half. In this situation, Antony and Pedro are in their respective positions but Fred is not. As soon as Pedro receives the ball following Fred's header, he attacks Croatia at speed. Being spent, Neymar and Rodrygo do not join him at that speed, and neither does Antony. Fred, who was already out of position, joins the attack instead running at speed. At this point, he is much further forward than Antony. I agree that if this Brazil knew how to rotate and maintain control of the ball, Pedro probably would not have gone on the counter-attack. However, Fred was already out of position when the counter attack started. In fact, almost all Brazilian players were in Croatia's half (the back 4 were almost at the halfway line). I think that's a big mistake when trying to defend a 1-0 scoreline with so few minutes left (I'm not saying it was solely Fred's mistake).
     
    Deep Pal repped this.
  11. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Scolari was the best. Just like Mario Zagallo was before him.
    It's silly that some ex-great players try to become coaches: Dunga, Leonardo.
    Who is next? Ronaldo? Ronaldinho?:D
    The lack of great Brazilian coaches in Europe is evidently visible. Besides Luxemburgo, Scolari, can't remember other coaches in Europe.:rolleyes:
     
  12. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Then why did Scolari get sacked? Why not bring him back?
     
  13. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I think that he gave up, after he won the title in 2002. Leaving at highest point of success isn't that bad. No one remembers you based on horrible results. He wanted to enter in Europe, through Portugal, Chelsea. After that he returned back and took Brazil again. Big mistake. After that, he switched continents. He is 74 years old today. Not some advantage
     
  14. BIHfan

    BIHfan Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Oct 13, 2020
    He got sacked in part for losing 1-7 to Germany in the semi-finals in 2014. Now everybody remembers him as being the coach who was there during that disaster.
     
  15. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I don't understand why Brazil just hasn't held the ball after they scored? Ordinary possession in defence and nothing else until the 120th minute.
     
  16. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Tite sounds as some kind of dictator.:rolleyes:
    Dunga was great as player, but average as coach, just like Leonardo.
    Maybe Brazil should take someone from Europe: Mourinho?:cool:
     
  17. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Scolari is relatively old to be an NT coach I think. Nevertheless, this year, he took unfancied Athletico Paranaense to the Copa Libertadores final. So, I guess he's still got it. He is easily the best coach Brazil has had so far in this century.
     
  18. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    Even better than the coach in 1994 and 2006? I forget his name but he won the 1994 World Cup and came back in 2006. I thought he was better than Scolari.
     
  19. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Carlos Alberto Parreira (CAP)...I did not include him in this century, lol!
    Scolari managed more high profile teams outside of Brazil, for example, Portugal, Chelsea etc. At his peak, Scolari did a great job with Portugal too. Regarding CAP, I did not really like the way he managed 2006, with so much talent at his disposal. He had this quadrado magico (magic square) formation, which he abandoned in the game against France, and did not start younger players in the tournament like Robinho, Adriano, Cicinho, who were in form. CAP did great in 1994 though, especially with his defensive organisation.
     
    Estuardo A. Lopez repped this.
  20. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Here's what Neymar and Tite said to the team before and after the Croatia goal.
     
  21. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Tite is pointing and motioning to his left. That means he is pointing to move back to our defense. What am I missing here ?

    What I see are Neymar, Rodrygo on the left and Antony on the right not making the slight effort to come back once they see Fred out of position. Obviously Fred shouldn't have made that run. But that was also a wide open space with Pedro on the ball and our and most players are taught to attack that type of space. That should have been Antony making that run if anything. But once Fred went, Antony and the others should have recognized it. They thought the game was over. Plain and simple. They lost focus.
     
    MerlinRM repped this.
  22. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
  23. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
    Listen to what Galvão said when he saw Tite hand gesturing to the players.

     
  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    People are sometimes wrong . And he is wrong . I know my left from my right and he is clearly motioning towards the defense . Luisinho on Caze TV said the opposite during the game . That Tite was asking players to come back .
     

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