The WC 2022 thread

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by johnny6, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Goncalo Ramos Current market value on the transfermarkt is: €24.00m

    I'm betting it will double in Janaury.
     
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  2. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Going with Portugal win, France win. Semi Portugal over the frenchies.

    Going for an upset, Croatia over Brazil. Argentina over Holland.

    Argentina over Croatia

    Argentina vs Portugal final with Argentina winning the cup.
     
  3. Azzurrifan87

    Azzurrifan87 Member

    Mar 29, 2015
    #479 Azzurrifan87, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    I doubt Clowncini would be able to navigate Uruguay, South Korea, and Ghana then Swtizerland.

    (Pre)Euro version of Mancini, yes QF look favorable and we'd likely kill the Moroccan dream.

    Clown version of Mancini, bottom of the group with a bunch of nervous, scared players taking on the scared, ball-less personality of their chief a$$clown.
     
  4. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    It is very difficult to see the Italy team which was beaten 2-0 in Austria last month qualifying for the KO stage of this WC.
     
  5. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    Uruguay was a joke this year. Don't know why he wouldn't be able to do it vs Sqitzerland with a 1 win, 2 draw record, thanks in part to Clownjinho

    Yes, taking penalties like a clown is totally on the coach.

    The players designate themselves for the penalty taker spot. Clownjinho should never have been given a second chance, and I'm talking after his Euro final miss.
     
  6. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    Italy would kick your England's ass though :)
     
  7. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Italy will get the chance soon because they play England in the opening EC24Q in Naples on 23 March.

    We have a consensus here: Italy produces enough talent to be among the best in the world, the fact it isn't is only because the talent is not developed when the players leave their teenage years because the Serie A clubs prioritise buying relatively mediocre foreign players over developing Italian talent.
     
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  8. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Wackier idea: Italy beating Switzerland, Bulgaria and N. Ireland at home without having to rely on a PK
     
  9. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    #485 Romisirr, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    Teams bunker really well these days, ask Spain, Argentina and Brazil. Spain suffers from a lack of a real center forward too. Should Enrique be fired for that? Then there was that post at the end of regulation. Hey, at least they had a free teenagers in the team. That's important.

    Maybe the team shouldn't have been trying to dribble the ball into the net. Maybe the writing is on the wall and playing like Morocco with more talent is the way to go. Just imagine them getting up the semi finals. This love affair with so called modern Tiki Kaka might end then?

    I'm just not a fan of baby/bathwater hysteria all the time, unless appropriate.

    I think the federation made the appropriate changes after Ventura who was truly a disaster.

    I prefer looking at the bigger picture and I don't give a rats behind what happens in friendlies (the Austria debate). When else is a coach supposed to try new players and formations without it being costly?
     
  10. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    They did it three times in a year, even after the qualifying disaster.

    England are in the quarter finals after managing to finally score in open play in their last game of the Nation's League.

    I'm not worried about England.
     
  11. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Teams bunkering is not a new thing and it has never stopped good teams from winning. Italy failed to qualify because they couldn’t score goals and Mancini stubbornly kept sticking to a system that wasn’t working and players that were out of form. Any other excuse is a bad cope. No one ever said Italy needs to play tiki taka and with the U15s on the field. But it’s better to play younger talents than call up has beens like Gabbiadini or Joao Pedro.

    I’m willing to give Mancini the benefit of the doubt for the qualification run. But he has a lot of work to do
     
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  12. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    #488 Romisirr, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    Was Argentina not a good team to Saudi Arabia?
    Was Brazil not a good team against Cameroon?
    Was Spain not a good team vs Morocco?

    I guess in those games they were not good teams. Are they bad teams overall?

    Yet it happened.

    Both are true, and a lot of other things happened concurrently.

    Italy won the Euro playing what many call a modern attack oriented game. It was figured out and teams realized the weakness and basically parked the bus. I agree Mancini needed to change it up. He isn't the first coach that stuck with his boys for a little bit too long. Each game that they drew from Sept 2021 to November 2021 was seen to be a one off by many. The writing was on the wall. Bunker on Italy and you might stand a chance vs modern football. In hindsight he should have gone back to old school Italy long ago. Then the modern game pundits would be crying that Italy is playing antiquated.

    You can't please everyone, can you?

    Cope? Nooooo...please no new age terminology.

    Maybe you can ignore facts like Jorginho missing two penalties, or the 5-6 posts and cross bars that were hit, even the Macedonian hand ball. That's not coping, or whatever you call it, it's shit luck.

    Spain hit a post in the 95th minute vs Morocco that would have ended the game, and then lost. Is that cope by acknowledging a fact, reality?

    Look, fans need something to blame, I get it. Blame isn't that simple. Most fans cannot accept that a bad run of games can ruin a dream. You just don't throw baby out with bathwater because of it. In the case of Ventura you had to clean house.

    Speaking of Ventura, were there any posters here that liked it when he was appointed?

    Actually I've heard many say this. Maybe not you, but fans can easily fall for trends.

    Until the young talents fail, then they get shredded, and other cope happens "we don't have a Gavi or Pedri!" I'm not a fan of playing Gabbiadini or Pedro. However I recognize it's not something new for managers to try and call up players that are in form around the time of the international match. I've seen this hundreds of times. Di Livio is a great example. One of hundreds.

    He already proved that the 4 game hiccup, as disastrous as it was, was sandwiched between two good showings.

    I'm not saying you said this, but for those that want just young players playing in a game without formation just because. Germany 5-2 happens.
     
  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    [​IMG]
    Spain: Luis Enrique is out as head coach after World Cup flop
    [​IMG]


     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #490 falvo, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    World Cup action is back today!

    Listening to some sports guys talk about the game is cringeworthy at best.

    Whether they like the game or not, you would think after the game has been deeply indoctrinated in the North American society for the last 40-50 years or since Pele first stepped foot in NYC in June 1975, some regular sportscasters at both ESPN and FOX would know how to talk or comment about soccer.

    I mean come on , all they have to do is watch their kid’s games and they will figure it out!
     
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  15. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I have to disagree with everything you said. In the end we have different interpretations of how this team should play. You said yourself, Italy won a tournament playing modern and outside of our norm and instead of continuing the technical project, we need to go back and take pointers from Saudi Arabia, Cameroon and Morocco? These are inferior countries who have no choice to play this way. How come it didn't work out for Wales? They played 11 behind the ball and collected 1/9 points. Italy is a power house of the game and 4x time world champion. We need to be producing talents on the level of our rivals. We have the ability to play a better style. For Italy to go back in time and play Cesare Maldini era calcio is an admission that our country is going backwards.

    Ciro Immobile has had a problem scoring for Italy for 4+ years. Mancini knew this and persisted even though it was obvious that the formation didn’t suit his qualities. He didn’t have the balls to shake things up. The CF can’t score? Then why not try two strikers? Insigne playing bad? THEN DROP HIM. Jorginho too predictable? Move Verratti to the middle, add an extra mezzala. That doesn’t work? Move to a different formation etc. All this is on the coach. PK misses aside, Italy left 4 points on the table vs. both Bulgaria and N. Ireland in the last games.

    If Italy need to return to our roots in anything, it's producing world class defenders and devastating strikers.
     
  16. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Has even Croatia surpassed Italy?
     
  17. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    #493 Romisirr, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    To keep your perspective, of course you have to. Also to keep your perspective you have to create my arguments for me, like needing to take pointers from inferior teams. I never said that.

    I've said how it played, and what went wrong. Their "modern style" in reality, looked good for two games. Then they had to get dirty (hard work) and dig deep to win the rest.

    Their modern style was nothing impressive over a long term, unless you think they played that style for the 37 game unbeaten streak, every game? I can accept that.

    I'll take Lippi 06 over their modern style any day though.

    You're smarter than this. I've never said we had to take pointers from anyone. Italy needs to be Italy. That's all.

    You said good teams find a way. Were the teams that those mentioned above defeated (Argentina, Brazil, Spain), who did not find a way, bad teams then?

    Those are your words.

    Just like the teams Italy couldn't find a goal on were.

    We are
    We did

    I have nothing wrong with the style that Lippi played in 06. Pragmatic when needed, killer instincts when needed. That's what I'd like to see again. Not a bad imitation of tiki-kaka.

    We also had four games where we couldn't score. Those games came at the wrong time.

    England had the same in the Nations League. There's came at a less costly time.

    All facts. It happened.

    Croatia is defending deep right now. Brazil is finding it hard to score, but when they got through Croatia's goalie have saved them.

    Are they playing Cesar Maldini era soccer?

    That's a nonsense analogy, you know it.

    He was four games too late. I never liked Ciro Immobile starting in the Euro's, but somehow it worked for the other players. I can see how a coach might want to stick it out a few more games thinking that it's just a matter of time. He did try different lineups. None of them worked. The bunker was hard to crack down, it always is. Again, ask Argentina, Brazil and Spain.

    Now you're starting to get it.
     
  18. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    Croatia is defending deep. Brazil has been struggling to penetrate them. Is Brazil bad?

    Croatia countering dangerously. Their defending has been magnificent.

    But this is antiquated football.

    Good thing their coach didn't get the memo.
     
  19. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Another WC, another overhyped Brazil team. Even if they do win it won't be an impressive one.
     
  20. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    #496 Romisirr, Dec 9, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
    Croatia doing to Brazil what their cousins did to Italy, with the exception that Croatia have some class and have come forward in counter attack more than once.

    Croatia looking to go to their fifth penalty knockout game in 2 world cups.

    We all know that if Italy was winning this way, Italy would be called negative and anti-football :)

    Too many people believe this bullshit, don't they?


    It's now at a pedestrian pace for Brazil in the middle of the pitch while Croatia just sit back and wait with negative, anti football, maybe even Cesar Maldini tactics?
     
  21. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    Croatia have 15 minutes to pull one back. Now we see them open up. Now we see the roles reverse.
     
  22. johnny6

    johnny6 Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Jun 29, 2011
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    God I hate Brazil, arrogant bastards.
     
  23. Romisirr

    Romisirr Red Card

    CSKA Sofia
    Bulgaria
    Nov 14, 2022
    That was one hell of a goal though. We get to see what Croatia is made of now.

    10 shots on net for Brazil
    0 shots for Croatia
     
  24. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Shit teams parking the bus against good teams is a fact of the game and has always existed. It doesn't change the fact that good teams always manage a way to win games. I stand by that. I don't know what you're arguing here. Sitting in your half and praying for a miracle goal from a counter attack is not something Italy need to emulate. S.Arabia were very lucky that that goals were offside. And Cameroon beat Brazil when it didn't matter. How come Wales played that way and got their shit pushed in by England? There are teams that have no choice to play this way because they're outmatched and then there are teams that choose to play this way as a tactic. You want Italy to return to playing a counter attacking reactive style. And I don't.

    Lippi's Italy had world class defenders, world class #10's and #9's who can score. This generation has none of that. Italy's 2020 run was not a bad version tiki taka with 5000 horizontal passes. It was a possession style and was way more vertical. And look at that, we won a title and played fantastic in the process.
     

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