Paris 2024: The Next Generation

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Dec 6, 2022.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty sure I saw that on Twitter too... maybe it was just a rumor.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think we kinda know.
     
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  3. Freestyle2000

    Freestyle2000 Moderator

    Feb 6, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Great GREAT list -- thanks for this!

    One quibble: I'd really rather not call Adams in for this. One of our problems, to my eye, is that we don't have anyone who can spell him in a tournament. It'd be nice to give a chance during the Olys to some contenders.

    But re: the prospects -- looking forward to following them. Thanks again!
     
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  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Indeed. And I don't think Leeds (or whatever club he's at in the summer of 2024) would release him for the Olympics anyway.

    Folks should remember the overage players we took to the Olympics last time we went. It wasn't the star USMNTers in their primes. It was 36 year old Brian McBride, who was on his way back to MLS. Brad Guzan in goal, who had just moved to Aston Villa (and didn't have a ton of USMNT caps). Michael Parkhurst, a USMNT squad player at the time. He was still at the Revolution (and would move to Denmark after the 2008 season).

    We weren't calling in Donovan, Dempsey, and those guys. We needed a centerback with that group. We weren't calling in Bocanegra, Onyewu, DeMerit, and those guys. They'd never have been released.
     
  5. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We desperately need at least two CDMs that can develop into something approaching where Adams is at now.... If we stick with a single six we are currently as thin as it gets at the position. Such a difficult position to play. Bravo brought us a great list but when I look at the CDMs I am left wondering if any of them will be able to play the way Adams does now for the USMNT. Sure, there are host of young CDMs on the list that might be able to break the lines better with a pass... This is pretty much the only thing WRT Adams that I don't consider to be very good to elite.... although he has been getting better since joining Leeds (double-pivot).

    In short, if we stick with a single-6 formation I fear that we will be too reliant on Adams for the foreseeable future. I immediately throw out a ton of names based on the lack of pace alone (E.g. Busio, Tessmann, McGlynn, Edelman, Leyva, Atencio, Vargas). These guys might be able to cut it as double-pivot 6s but none of them have the recovery speed to destroy/cover/recover the way Adams does. Surprisingly, Flach is one of the few CDM-types on the midfielder list that does have the pace and tackling ability to play a single 6 for us but if some clamor for Adams to pick out better passes then they would revolt with Flach because that has to be the weakest part of his game. Pukstas seemed to be the main single 6 for the U20s in the tourney and did a pretty good job but I think he got a lot more help from the 8s defensively than Adams often does. Interested to see how he progresses.

    Overall though I am overjoyed with the growth process. Our U20 team was a lot of fun to watch in the tourney.... they scored a lot of goals and created a ton of chances all w/o a legit striker. I am optimistic that the experience a lot of these players gain in the 2023 U20 WC and the 2024 Olympics will pay dividends by strengthening our USMNT squad by the time the 2026 WC comes around.

    One last thing... I do agree with a lot of you that CB should be our main concern from a youth perspective.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    CB can also be a "late-developing" position when compared to the attacking positions.

    Jalen Neal of the Galaxy, for instance, is very well thought of. Josh Wynder of Louisville is well thought of. A lot of folks really like CB/CM Brandon Craig of Philly. They need time to grow and advance. And there can be a lot of "late bloomers" at that position. We see that for other nations, and not just the USMNT.

    The three Dallas based USYNT centerbacks still haven't emerged. Jonathan Tomkinson has gotten some playing time at Norwich. Nico Carrera has gotten some minutes in Bund2 with Holsten Kiel. Justin Che has kind of fallen off the map since going to Hoffenheim, and supposedly isn't play in defense anymore.
     
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  7. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Don't we have to qualify first? Because that's been a hill to high to climb for awhile now.
     
  8. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018

    I had not heard that about Che. If he is not playing defense anymore, where is he playing? The U20's seem to like him at CB but if his club doesn't even have him in defense, how much longer does it last at the U20 level?
     
  9. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last I checked he was playing right winger for their youth teams.
     
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  10. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    We qualified already
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The 2022 U20 CONCACAF Championships (which we won) served as qualifiers for the Olympics.

    Good news for us as that's our most successful competition.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He started the year at RB, but is now listed as RM in game reports.

    Then again..................he's been playing in the regional German 4th tier (Regionalliga Sudwest). So who knows? None of us watch that.

    Che only turned 19 a few weeks ago. There's still time to get back on track. But its still a little worrisome.
     
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  13. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Might be a good time to have him called back to FCD and work his way into their first team roster. CB is a need, even though they just signed the guy from LA.
     
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  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't see him (or Sealy) coming back.

    And if he does come back they might give him the "Thomas Roberts Memorial" cold shoulder.

    Thomas Roberts still doesn't have a club. He's another all-time mystery. A kid with U16, U18, and U20 USYNT caps that just never seemed to develop. Olympics eligible. Sometimes kids develop and sometimes they don't.
     
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  15. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very good point. I watched Wynder a lot this year and was pretty impressed given his age and level of competition. Was also impressed with the fact that they held him out to be like the last PK kicker in his first shoot-out... which he ended up winning w/ his kick BTW and then in the Eastern Finals they had him as one of the 1st shooters in the shoot-out. That really showed trust in the kid. I do worry that he doesn't have that top-end speed though. That being said, I am obsessed w/ pace and while I maintain that it might be the most important ingredient in whether a player can be elite there are obviously tons of examples of guys w/ average speed at various positions that do more than prosper.

    I like what I saw from Neal overall during the CONCACAF U20 Tourney. He made a few mistakes but that is to be expected. Craig also did well but he is a strange one in that he seems kind of snail slow but the dude might be our best CB prospect WRT passing out of the back. The dude is pretty great already at his long range passing and can bang from long range. I was hoping to hear more from Kobi after he left for France but alas he has yet to break thru w/ the 1st team. Maybe this Spring? Lastly, yes... Che dropped off the map. I understand why he wanted to take a pay day to go to the BL but he never even played a minute at CB in the MLS. If he really wanted to play CB I think he should have tried to break thru in Dallas 1st. Meanwhile, since he has been asked to play RB I don't think he has put on the necessary poundage that I thought he was lacking for North Texas.
     
  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I think the truth is, we need something between Adams and Acosta develop. I think we have a lot of good signs we have guys that could accomplish that goal, but that needs to be the priority to me. We can and should hope to develop Adams caliber talents, but lets be clear here, we have NEVER developed an Adams caliber player for the position. Not ever, nothing close. So thinking we could produce two of them in just a couple of years is probably a stretch. What we need is to produce better than Acosta (basically MLS lifer/borderline good enough to barely make it in Europe guys). I do think we have a decent supply of prospects that can hopefully get there. We'll see. It was obviously a problem, but for now anyway, the best we can hope for is to continue to develop and pump out numbers and numbers of lottery tickets so that some hit and hit big. If we have 6 guys that look like Tessman in a 4 year window at say age 17, that's a great thing, if we don't have any talents approaching Tessman level for half a decade age 17, that's a problem.

    That's how I look at it anyway. We need bullets, as many as possible, so at least a few hit the target in terms of career developmental success. I'm excited about Wing Forward/Winger in this sense, and to some degree what we're doing at the 8 as well, but the 6, striker, and LB are particular problem areas. CB is more complicated. We have a ton of high floor CB's, and an interesting supply of upside prospects, but no sure thing high ceiling high floor guys. So in that sense I don't worry about CB as much as other people. I can count at least 6 I think are borderline startable, I can only count 1 6 I'm happy with, 1 LB, and 0 strikers. If that makes sense.

    The prospect pool seems to have CB's, RB, Keepers, 8's, and Wing Forwards, but lacks Strikers, high end 6 options (though it does have a bunch that might be okay at least), LB's, and high end CB's. We'll see though. I'm very curious to see how things develop for guys like Gomez, and Che, very curious for our LB, LWB, Wing Forward Kevin Paredes, very curious about Paxten, very curious about Pomykal. Curious to see if Philadelphia's youngsters continue to develop into interesting options and hopefully prove to be more than depth.
     
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  17. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Its interesting to see write ups on Wynder, comments etc, I get the sense from people that watch him closely, that he's one of the best prospects period in his cohort. Interesting guy to keep an eye on over the next two years for sure. I'm both excited for the upside at so young an age but weary too considering how much development and growth happen between age 17 and 21. Any chance he has a passsport that can get him to Europe early?
     
  18. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I thought I heard something about that but I forgot.
     
  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matt Doyle does 2024 squads for Copa America and Olympics... he forgot a few guys (Malik Tillman, Johnny Cardoso) and left off a bunch of others that he addresses in the replies (Dike, Mendez, Parks, Busio, Luna, A Morris, Vines, Gressel, Glad etc.)



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  20. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Agree about the need for someone better than Acosta as Adams' understudy. Among our youth players Obed Vargas and Pedro Soma impress me. Not sure if they will be far enough along to compete for a spot on the Olympic squad.
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i mostly stayed out of the single vs double pivot fray pre-wc because gregg was never going to go to a double, and i doubt he will if re-hired, but its time to talk about now.

    if you have a dearth of players in one role/position you can either a) hope one emerges or b) address that issue/weakness tactically- i think the latter is clearly the better option.

    our outlook if things stay the same (manager/single d-mid/"true 6") is what? adams, acosta, perea, vargas and richardson, right? after that are defensively capable options, but not guys who can cover a backline on their own- not a problem in and of itself- other than being a defense-first role as weve seen it.

    going to a double pivot not only allows some of those "more defense-ish 8s" (williamson, pomykal, cardoso, flach, mcglynn) to not only strengthen/maintain our defense while bringing varying offensive/possession/pressing qualities- you could also pair two of those guys in lieu of a dedicated 6.

    not to mention- while i wouldnt say defense is a primary attribute- thats also, imo, the best current use of a couple of true 8s we have in musah and de la torre.

    ive named a handful of youth players and two dual nats there, and obviously not everyones going to pan out/be at a high enough level, but i think in some cases we only have problems if we decide to make them problems. and i think in this last cycle weve decided to have that problem of a single pivot, dedicated 6.

    cause look at our other "problem" areas- st and lb. theres a world of tactical changes to address having good-not-great strikers but lb you just sorta have to do what you can with who you have. if we limit ourselves and say its a sole 6, period, well, the outlooks not awesome. on the other hand, if we say lets use the abilities and players we have in the pool rather than a system we have a ton of strong options, and flexibility to help address other areas at the same time (ie accomodating an attacking mid to lessen the burden on our fwds).

    to put it simply- we can either go all-in (again) on a system while hoping for another adams and a couple of dempseys to magically emerge, or we can be actually use what have.
     
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  22. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I would love to see us win the Olympics (and I think our best squad could compete) I am skeptical we’d get the players released we would need to. On top of that, I am optimistic we could be competed (and maybe even hosting) the Copa America in 2024, which I think would take precedence.

    I think Doyle mostly has the right idea. A few guys who could be squad guys on the Copa team saved for the Olympics so we can see how they excel in larger roles (Pepi, Scally, Tillman, Tolkin, Booth etc) and using the overage spots on center backs (which will help us be competitive and also get a longer look at some options at one of our most uncertain positions).
     
  23. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coach needs to adapt to the player pool; not force the player pool to adapt to him.
     
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  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Olympic team is much more likely to be MLS heavy just because those are the guys most likely to actually be released.

    I also don’t think we should save anyone for the Olympics by not taking them to the Copa. Take the best team you can take to the Copa, and then take the best team you can take the Olympics based on whose available.
     
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  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What that roster might look like....
    GK Gabriel Slonina
    GK Chris Brady
    FB Tayvon Gray (?)
    FB John Tolkin
    FB Bryan Reynolds
    CB Matt Miazga (o)
    CB Mark McKenzie (o)
    CB James Sands (o)
    MF Malik Tillman
    MF Johnny Cardoso
    MF Jack McGlynn
    MF Taylor Booth
    MF Paxten Aaronson
    MF Gianluca Busio (?)
    FW Ricardo Pepi
    FW Cade Cowell
    FW Kevin Paredes
    FW Brian Gutierrez (?)
     
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