It's not really about "firing" Berhalter. He's out of contract at the end of the month. He may choose to pursue other opportunities, or the USSF may choose to move in another direction.
I guess you really are in an MLS bubble. Why would they? Where? Go to any other website that isn't so MLS friendly.
I'm not surprised. In light of that fact that you have brought up information that is wholly irrelevant to anything that I previously put forth, I'd say that reading posts carefully in the future before responding may do you a world of good. My post had nothing to do with, specifically, "who, from whatever league, got more minutes than who". And, the timeframe is not limited to merely "The World Cup", but rather, OVER THREE YEARS. It was about the USMNT coach's apparent infatuation with catering to inferior players at the expense of either proven superior players, or, interesting prospective players. And most of these "inferior players" were from the MLS. I can only speculate on the reasons "why" as I do not have firsthand knowledge of how Gregg makes decisions in that head of his. My ultimate point was that his preferences certainly did not help to quell conspiracy theories surrounding the MLS and the national team. You don't have to read or interpolate anything else into what I said. I didn't say that any conspiracy theories were true.
Speaking as someone who has dabbled in pro/rel zealotry myself, it's not what it once was. The death of the NASL and taming of the USL kinda blunted the immediacy of it in a US context, and then I think in different ways the closing of Liga MX and the European Super League fiasco took the wind out of the sails of the notion that pro/rel was the One True Way of organizing the sport of soccer. I still absolutely believe and it is still undeniably true that pro/rel would be a very powerful tool to make more games more competitive and dramatically compelling in the US Soccer landscape (Shameless plug for my You Be The Don post! https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/regional-leagues-a-modest-proposal.2123499/). But it's not at the top of mind the way it was with a lot of other initiatives flying around. And to be honest, a lot of people did not believe MLS could take the steps it has in the past 5 or so years without pro/rel and they did it anyway.
Bsky22 quote you initially responded to was specific to the MLS players at the World Cup. You "+1" that. That playing time info is germaine to the overarching conversation. You mentioned MLS specifically multiple times in your first post - Who are the players from and what were the other inferior leagues Gregg favored? Who are the superior players that were ignored from 3 years ago to the present? Who were the superior players that should have been on the roster that ate NOT injured? You are being disingenuous. You mean MLS and MLS alone. There is no conspiracy. If so, MLS players playing time should have gone up.
As much fun as it is to watch the Pro/Rel battles in Europe are I don't see how it would ever fly here. Owners are sinking hundreds of millions of dollars into new MLS franchises and I have not seen any reasons why they would continue to do that if there is a chance they would get relegated to a lower division. Hard to imagine the values of the lower clubs being slashed overnight if it was implemented which of course, no owner would be ok with. What is the reason for a new owner or a bad franchise who could easily be relegated to agree to it? I don't see it.
can say that owners of second level franchises would agree to it though and it adds to the value of the pro soccer landscape overall
MLS still gets a ton of disrespect both domestically and internationally for the quality of its play, which though rapidly improving is still no great shakes. That conversation will continue forever. But the idea that MLS is a conspiracy against US Soccer and the USMNT just can't survive the objective facts anymore. MLS is absolutely a monopolistic anti-competitive cabal, as all US sports leagues are by design, but it has a more-or-less healthy and independent relationship from the national team now, which is good news. Don Garber twirling his mustache in a smoke filled room isn't why Berhalter is being considered to remain. It's solely because of the entrenched insularity and culture of fear around reaching for more at USSF itself.
In theory? Because the upside of more people watching games that are more interesting and have more stakes on TV outweighs the financial downside risk, which can theoretically be managed and doesn't *have* to be an EPL vs Championship grand revenue canyon. That probably doesn't describe the reality in 2022. But I do believe that trends will move in that direction over time. The format of MLS as a competition is bad. It has made great strides despite that and can continue to make more and the NFL is the revenue king despite also being a really bad competition, but there's potential to be mined in making the format a better product for fans.
It was great to finally see what the guys looked like with the MLS duds in the first half against Iran. Berhalter has done this in the past when under pressure. The real question is why did MLS players get 40% of the minutes over the full cycle if that number is going to halved twice at the WC. Another 15ish% went guys who were in MLS when they got first capped before moving to Europe. That includes guys like Adams and Aaronson who got most of their minutes after moving, but also a bunch of guys like Busio, Vines, etc.
If Garber is pulling the strings from his secret lair I imagine Berhalter wouldn’t be his first choice for 2026 with numbers like these.
"eh, eh, you know, its not technically correct (pushes up glasses) to say 'sahara desert' <sniff> because sahara literally means desert (pushes up glasses)..." beat it, nerd! (the above is a joke. meant in a joking way. it is not a personal attack. it is a joke.)
I believe owners is only half the equation. How many fans would actively support a team whose definition of a good season is "staying up"? Or being a solidly mid table team without any real hope that their team could be top of the table? Imo, pro/rel changes the fan equation from "hoping to win" to "hoping not to come in last". If the team is established and has a fan base that has grown up with generations of support, that formula might work. Will it work here? I can't speak for others but I can't see myself as a fan of a team which I believe will never amount for anything. I need something to look forward to. In fact, ironically, we see it in SOME of the fans that support pro/rel. "MLS sucks", so they won't support or follow MLS. They see it as inferior and don't believe it will ever be on par to Europe....so who do they follow? The fact is that pro/rel does provide drama and excitement at the bottom of the table when it lacks in MLS (or any league where pro/rel does not exist....mlb for example), but the current system doesn't perpetuate a caste system to the same degree. Of course, nothing is perfect....just watch "damn yankeees" (I just dated myself)....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Yankees_(1958_film) (if you care). I apologize for writing so much on pro/rel. Obviously this covers only a fraction. Do you like pro/rel better? Fine. Would you prefer the current MLS system or some variation? Fine. Which is better? Maybe one is better for some countries and the other is better in some situations? Maybe not.
The thing is, as a fan of one of 32 NFL teams, all you really have to look forward to is a draft pick. What you're describing is an inherent, fundamental paradox, but it's treated as if it's something the US Big Four has solved, with the evidence being all the money they make. It ain't true though. You see my screen name. I know a thing or two about loving a team that could never win a championship and plays for scraps. The Bears go decades without playing a game that means as much to me as the total slapstick farce of a 9-6 win over Iowa we had this year. Because none of them count in that way. The competitive relationship between Illinois and Iowa is subtly different now, the competitive relationship between the Bears, Packers, Lions and Vikings is enshrined by rule to always be exactly the same. (An MLS-relevant note though: stars help. I don't care whether the Bears win, but I am glued to the TV because Justin Fields is so much fun to watch.)
i thik a better question is who wins: the usmnt coached by van gaal OR the dutch coached by nepogreggatism? US every time for me.
I wouldn’t be so sure since that also opens second division clubs to dropping down the pyramid. USL have used the possibility of internal pro/rel as a nice headline but so far don’t appear to be in a hurry to actually make it happen. There’s also the matter of good USL teams simply not having the ownership to spend at the MLS level. “Get smacked around for a year by the big boys!” is not going to move the needle here as it might in other sports cultures with a long history of pro/rel.
Your example of the Bears is a perfect example of the type of emotional connection that exists between fans and a team that is only truly evident on a wide scale when the team has a history in the community. MLS does not have a true history in the community...at least not on that scale and nothing at all like Europe. It is developing but that type of emotional bond takes years. Many years. For me, I live in southern california but grew up a 49rs fan because my father was and is a huge fan. (that was long before the 49rs were anything special). All of my friends were Rams fans (that was before they moved the first time) but my dad's stories about Kesar Stadium, Hugh Mclhenny and others made me a 49rs fan. They were decent (mid table) but not great, then bad (maybe horrible) for several years and then they got the great draft that you alluded to. That was the start of their ascension. I think few fans of teams at the bottom of any league feel they will go from worst to first in one year but the only real reason for looking forward to the draft is that there is at least a glimmer of hope that the team will be better some time in the future (2-5 years). The other thing you describe, has to do with emotional connection....growing up with family members that were fans, having a connection to a school etc. MLS teams don't have that same emotional connections. As it continues to grow and after it has been around for some time that will change but until then it puts them at a disadvantage.
Sure but that's exactly what I'm saying. I am a lifelong Bears fan and the team and being a part of that fan culture (Ditka...Sausage...) is deeply ingrained with being a Chicagoan, it's a lingua franca that binds people together, especially men frankly for whom there's too little of that. But nonetheless, the NFL is super boring on a macro level and the product has gotten really, really bad. The league is an undefeatable cultural juggernaut for a number of other reasons (see above), but if you're imitating the structure of the league you're imitating its worst aspect. I really do believe you'd need to create a competition a lot better than the NFL in order to make people care about their soccer club the way they care about the NFL and start to bed in that community connection, that's the trick of it.
For what it's worth, I don't watch football anymore. I don't think we disagree at all. I don't have an opinion on the NFL (see above) but know of the history and the emotional attachment that fans have for "their" teams. It is true for Chicago fans and it is true for fans of small clubs in Europe. My only point, is that in the absence of an emotional bond, a fan needs something else. Winning, or at least a belief that winning in the future can give a bit of a push that pro/rel (imo) does not. Without that emotional bond, where do the fans go? To a winner. Who is seen as more of a winner now? Am I oversimplifying it? yes. I realize that, but I think my point still stands.
If we had an actual soccer pyramid that was fully built out, I think promotion and relegation would be a ton of fun and I think I'd like what it would bring into domestic soccer. But I agree that the main issue is the amount that owners are sinking into MLS clubs. They are never going to agree to system that is going to significantly devalue their investment. As even the fact that relegation exists devalues the value of a club. This is why a Newcastle is sold for less than some MLS clubs would be.
Because there are a number of pretty meaningless friendlies where the European clubs don't want to release their American players to fly halfway around the world. MLS players will do those friendlies in the hopes that they might get a callup for a more important game if they have a good showing.
I dont think i have ever seen that happen. Can you provide an example? Not talking about January or the December camps that this cycle brought us. Pretty sure this is just something you made up.