Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2022-2023 Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jun 25, 2022.

  1. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3576 xbhaskarx, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    Ah, I see Federico Oliva moved from Atletico Madrid to UD Almería (YYA link)... still he's 18, is he no longer considered a legit prospect?

    Also how does a kid like Rodrigo Neri already have a Wikipedia page?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Neri
     
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  2. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I vaguely recall that FIFA made a special exception for the 2016 version that wouldn't necessarily apply if we were merely an invitee to a normal edition held in South America.
     
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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We'll see. I have confidence that we're going to continue having these "hits" coming out of our domestic youth ranks.

    Now.............its undoubtedly true that Dest, Antonee, Musah, Weah (partially), etc. didn't come out of those programs. Dual-national recruiting from our global diaspora is part of our success story. [Maybe...............Balogun is next. We'll see.]

    But there's a lot of talent right now in the states, and the pipeline will continue to flow. Will they be as good as Pulisic and Reyna? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll see. Pulisic and Reyna were able to go over to Europe early with Euro passports.

    I mean...........look at Germany. Supposedly one of the best developmental nations in the world. They had huge holes on their national team at the World Cup. Fullbacks. #9s.
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Oliva seems to have fallen out of our USYNTs at the moment. That's not to say he can't come back. There's always been some skepticism there.

    One thing I've learned after 30 years of watching USYNTs. People get ridiculously excited by having dual-national kids in big Euro academies. The "success rate" of those kids seems infinitesimally small. For every Sergino Dest in an age group, there's a huge number of Euro-based kids we track at big clubs that just disappear. Some make it to first team soccer and don't seem to develop.

    So will Adrien Gil of Barcelona make it? I don't know, but we've had quite a number of kids at Barcelona over the last 20 years. Only de la Fuente made it to a USMNT cap, and he's in a bad spot right now in club soccer. Most of those kids don't even get to Barca B.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Maybe you're right.

    Without WCQers, etc. to worry about, I bet we can negotiate the release of most of our top players for the Copa America. I'm not as worried as others about it.

    Maybe we tell concerned Euro clubs that we'll call players up for Copa, but in return won't release them for other mid-season international windows that year.
     
  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  7. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. There'd likely be a break for the group stage of a potential Copa (until an invite is extended to and accepted and signed, I'm not going to assume this is happening). The Olympics would likely fall during the Leagues Cup, so teams may be more willing to let some of the young players go to the Olympics if they are called up. The Olympics lasts two weeks.
     
  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that was indeed the case for the 2016 edition, I wonder if they wouldn't also make the exception for the 2024 edition since we won't be playing in any WC qualifiers. A case can certainly be made by USSF for such an exception.
     
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  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
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  10. Ironbound

    Ironbound Member+

    Jul 1, 2009
    Copa América is a summer tournament that Euro clubs are used to sending tons of players to. They also will be sending tons of players to the Euros at the same time. I have a hard time seeing them forcing their top American players to stick around for lonely training sessions. The only sticking point I could see is if Concacaf tries to schedule some nations league nonsense that summer too.

    The Olympics are a little tougher, but this one is early enough in the summer that I’d expect to get most of the U23s we want for it (as long as they aren’t also playing in the Copa).
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My sense is that we won't participate in the 2024 Copa America unless such an exemption is granted.
     
  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yep. The timing of the Copa America, and the needs of the team suggest to me anyway that it's a lock that it will be an "A" team event, whereas the Olympics will be our U23 players that aren't A teamers or can get released (a handful), and a couple of vets for the overage. Expecting us to get our senior players for both is a fools errand, much like the Gold Cup in '21 (to me anyway). Players get a vacation AND they have club demands that start being an issue in July. The first Olympic matches don't even start until the 24th when most clubs are fully engaged in preseason. The positive side though is that historically, clubs seem to like to use the Olympics as a shop window for young stars, it rarely seems like teams can't get anyone released, so I'd suspect we'd be able to get most of the U23's we wanted other than those locked into Copa America.
     
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  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its not about that. Euro clubs are REQUIRED to release South American players for the Copa America. They are not required to release players for guest teams, which is what we'd be. They don't even have to provide a reason.

    In 2007 we reportedly had trouble getting some key players released for the Copa America. So we sent our "A" team to the Gold Cup (which clubs are required to release players to) and a real backup/fringe team to the Copa America. It was still worth it as a couple of those fringe players were retained with the group moving forward. [Kljestan, Beckerman, Davies, Guzan, etc. had 0-1 caps going into in.]

    I think we'll be able to negotiate with clubs, but you never know. Its not as straightforward as we'd want it to be.

    Worth pointing out, obviously, that MLS clubs aren't required to release players either. And with every passing cycle, they've been more reluctant to release key players when they don't have to. Atlanta, for instance, refused to release players for the Olympic qualifiers in 2020. People say "oh yeah, we'll get any MLS players we want." Not so fast.
     
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  14. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3589 OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    So begins the great CB race for 2026. I welcome this fight

    Richards, MRob, Trusty, EPB……. Maybe Sands takes the Tim Ream helm? I like the talent. I like it a lot

    and …… aaaaannnnddddd don’t write off Zimmerman. Don’t even write off 30 year old options like Tim Parker. CB is different…… it just is. Tim team learned everyone
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I know a lot of people, including @bshredder have weighed in on this, but I highly suspect that we would get help from FIFA on release requirements given 2026 hosting.
     
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  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Heck................if we have to send a domestic "B" team to the Copa America, then so be it. That still has a lot of value in terms of player identification.

    We should send teams to every event we can this cycle across age groups. Pan Am Games. Toulon Tournament. Milk Cup. Whatever. Send the best squad we can get. If that's NCAA players, then do it!! Keep expanding the pool over the first two years.
     
  17. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hell yes! Absolutely this. I’ll watch the U23 c team gleefully In Toulon if we get the shot
     
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  18. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah.. 2016 was the only time FIFA granted an exemption for the Copa America to allow all teams to participate equally. There were no guest team restrictions. IMHO, guest team restrictions make everything unworkable.

    My understanding now is that in 2024, it is looking like there will be a similar exemption (for all teams, not just the USMNT). Not done yet, but it seems to be the case.
     
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  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    FIFA has billions of reasons to get the US prepared for this World Cup.
     
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  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where FIFA corruption works in our favor.

    It sounds could potentially be a test event in 2025 (like the Arab Cup last year), which seems like might be an expanded Gold Cup with some guest teams, but I’d love to see them bring back the Confederations Cup.
     
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  21. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    To me, it seems like an insane thing to worry about. Look at Chelsea. You think they’d let their players go for the euros and the Copa (currently only applies to Thiago Silva), and try to tell CP he can’t play? And he’ll just sit there and take it? That would be a great way to piss off players and a bunch of fans.

    This isn’t like releasing guys for the Olympics while the season is getting started.
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What exactly does the US have to prepare? It's not like the USA has to build 8 currently non-existent stadiums, build a non-existent city on the dessert, build mass transit systems, and build hotels that don't currently exist or anything. :rolleyes:

    FIFA already knows that the 2026 WC is going to have multiple Brinks Trucks pulling into it's HQ in Zurich full of Cash. Oh wait....by then we'll just be paying them in Bitcoin.....
     
  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am far from a MLS hater (it's my favorite league, my most watched league, and I've been a Quakes season ticket holder for over a decade), but league quality matters... it's great that MLS is producing talented players but they need to be moved along to "Yanks Abroad"



    [​IMG]

    The only goal scorers from MLS have been two Euro star DPs who came over in the last year... at least Australia and Mexico actually produced theirs... having said that Brandon Vazquez should definitely have made our roster.
     
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  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We're getting there.

    True story. This 2022 World Cup is really the first one we've had with MLS homegrown academy players. That's how new our academy programs are. Half of MLS has been founded since 2011.

    [In 2014 we had Yedlin, but he was sorta a homegrown in name only.]

    We're trying to catch up to nations with generations worth of a head start. And I get it, we want to be France or Spain tomorrow. All I'm saying is that if we take a step back and look at the quality of youngsters coming out of our relatively new academies (McKennie, Aaronson, Adams, and company).........its pretty awesome. And we're at just the start of that wave.

    And yes, MLS clubs are selling their best young players to Europe with regularity. Paxten Aaronson to Frankfurt, Gabriel Slonina to Chelsea, etc. are just the most recent. There are all sorts of rumors swirling about other young players right now. Sometimes those moves don't work out too. (See Justin Che, who's disappeared since moving to Hoffenheim)
     
  25. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    In an ideal world MLS is selling players ready to contribute immediately around age 18-19 (with some loaned back for additional seasoning) after having contributed significantly for at least a season in MLS. That’s the Brazilian league model, although IMO those teams have sold a bit too early in the last decade or so and could’ve reaped even more profit had they hung onto guys an extra year.
     
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