Yanks Abroad Flavors of the Week: 2022-2023 Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jun 25, 2022.

  1. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I've followed this season, Tessman is getting more time than Busio. What a disappointment Busio's been over the last year. Still a young player, still plenty of time to eventually contribute, but definitely a regressive year.
     
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  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Probably not on the trajectory to be a consistent contributor in a big league early like Puli/Reyna. That's not exactly common. How many 16 year old Germans are seeing time in the Bundesliga this season? Not many in the vein that Pulisic did at Dortmund.

    But we do have guys following the Brenden Aaronson track.

    I do think people forget how young Ricardo Pepi still is. How young Gabriel Slonina is. How young Jonathan Gomez is. How young Kevin Paredes still is. The list goes on. I mean, Malik Tillman is 20. He's going to be around for multiple cycles.

    To some degree the complete cancellation of the 2021 youth cycles means that there are a lot of "under the radar" kids around the world in the younger age groups. Paricularly those based overseas. People just haven't seen them.

    Let's not forget that we have two players at Barcelona currently playing for our U17 national team. Adrian Gil and Diego Kochen. Keyrol Figueroa of Liverpool (formerly of FCD) was also recently called up to the U17s. Aiden Harangi of Eintracht Frankfurt is another U17 callup. Inigo Esmanech of Hellas Verona. That doesn't mean those particular kids are going to "make it." Simply that we do have kids at big clubs moving up the ranks. If just one makes it to the big time, then its a huge win.
     
  3. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    That's what I'm saying.
     
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not great when you don't play professional soccer for years and are still injured
    [​IMG]
     
  5. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's the story associated with this picture?
     
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  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  7. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [QUOTE="Clint Eastwood, post: 41025416, member: 36238" ]Inigo Esmanech of Hellas Verona. [/QUOTE]

    My name is Inigo Esmanech and you beat my team prepare to die.
     
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  8. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully our guys know to avoid Chelsea at this point…

     
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  9. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chelsea inquiry?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Not that he's looked good for the US, but people have been saying since early fall that Cardoso is rated far higher by European Clubs, than he is by our fan base, far, far higher. This may be a case of tools, and not fitting with Berhalter, who knows, but the people that are paid for a living to scout these guys really like them (I get that that's "appeal to authority", but in a case where we've barely seen him play, and scouts have watched him a ton, maybe we should give at least an ounce of a skepticism to our own verdicts from like 100 mins of watching him total ever).
     
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  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yep. I cannot and will not argue that Cardoso has looked good for us. He didn't. But a couple of things need to be pointed out.
    #1: The entire design of that U23 squad was complete and utter horse ----. There were 6 #6's, and no creative playming midfielders (they used Ferreira as a striker/false 9). The set up and the coaching basically made that entire roster look horrible, and worse yet, the coach didn't help either, and the roster selection was botched (there were at least 4-5 obvious (how in the hell did these guys not make the team/make the team issues that were absolutely bonkers level, far beyond just say, Pefok being left off, or Arriola being left off)). So nobody should be evaluated based on that tournament. Tessman left for Italy like four months later, and couldn't buy a freaking minute until we were getting knocked out.

    #2: Beyond the olympic qualifying campaign, none of us have seen him play for the US more than what, 75-100 minutes. Should anyone be evaluated on that?

    #3: As mentioned before, the people who have watched him, love him. Doesn't mean he's good, but it does mean that the guys w/the high grades on him are the same people that have seen like 25x more minutes worth of his play than we have if not 100x.

    Again, doesn't mean he's good, but it does mean we should walk back the "he sucks" and instead go with, "he's an unknown quantity" because, he is.

    As for Tessman, still like him, Busio, I have my biases. I just feel like Busio is more of a 2000-2010 type player than now. He has too much matador in his defensive game, seems a step slow, maybe not athletic enough. I love his passing, set pieces, even finishing, but all the little things that players have to do these days in terms of work rate, defending, toughness etc, he doesn't seem to have any of it (to me anyway) and that means he's a luxury player. I don't think he ever becomes as national team relevant as he was in the fall of 2021. I don't think it happens. I do think he has a career, but I think he's gonna be like Nova, a guy playing in Europe but rarely if ever getting call ups. Sucks, but thats my feeling. I reserve the right to be 100% wrong. I've been before, will be again plenty, maybe in this post lol. But right now, I just dont see it, and it sounds like Venezia n'doesn't either.
     
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  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Well when scuffed had their resident youth guy report on the '04's and '05's, the news was quite bad. I got the sense that the view was the covid shut down derailed the years birth classes so badly some players dropped out of the sport entirely.

    Scuffed | U.S. soccer, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America: #217: State of the men's youth national teams and upcoming U20 camp on Apple Podcasts

    He came in again a few months later in April to talk, I need to relisten to that, but the sense I got was that there was definitely a developmental dropping of the ball due to understandable issues w/covid.

    That being said, if our current U20's could qualify for the U20 WC and Olympics defeating their opponents collectively like 32-1 in like 6 games or whatever is astonishing.

    I would agree w/the general sentiment that the current U20 crop has a lot of depth options, but not a lot of WC relevant talent, its more depth options. But we have guys on there that could do it. Paxten looks grade, Caden Clark might get back, there's some talent in there, and for as badly as the U17's played after qualifying 3 years ago, that crop in '19 still gave us guys like Scally, Reyna, Pepi, Busio etc. My big concern is that the chief senior team prospects are basically a mix of CB's, and Wing Forwards, maybe a CM or two. No Strikers as usual, but there's at least 5 or 6 guys that are real interesting.
     
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  13. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yep, someone posted a nice little thread on our youth teams. Basically, all of them are kicking ---. They've been awesome pretty much across the board, and it isn't just performances, the players are drawing the eyes of the scouts left and right too.

    I'm a bit worried we'll have dips, and I'm a bit worried that the latest crops are more depth options, than guys that can push out our starters but it needs to be noted that the field players for the most part on all of our youth teams right now are better players than any U20 team we've put out pretty much EVER. Even the real good ones. Only possible exception might be '19 which had a ton of actual potential talent and produced what, four or five guys that became regulars or semi-requlars for the senior team within two years of the cup. I think the high end of '19 is better than the high end of '21 or '23 (if there'd been a '21), but I think the depth of talent at the current U20 cycle is absurd. We qualified as you mentioned w/a roster that was mostly backups and they absolutely smashed the ---- out of everyone and would've pitched a shut out if not for a flukey as hell goal against Canada (as is, it was 32-1 I think in terms of GF/GA.

    The spigot appears to be on for the forseeable future, its just there will be ebbs and flows, sometimes you'll get elite studs, sometimes more just depth, sometimes a nix mix. Right now seems more like depth w/a few potential studs but as we learned at the WC, depth matters too (I think we always had it, I just don't think Berhalter picked it, but that might just be me).
     
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  14. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Interesting summer:

    Copa America: June/July 2024

    Olympics: July/August 2024

    The first group stage games of the olympics start 11 days after the Copa America ends.

    That's a helluva summer, France is host too, pretty sweet. Overage players? Not sure who, but I think the fed/coaches should listen to the advice of the '08 guys because they had quite a few suggestions about what went wrong w/that selection (and it seems like it was incredibly dumb). An injured recovering McBride taken, and Adu autostarted on a team w/Altidore and Davies on the freaking bench. 100% insanity.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Big question: Will any play the Olympics and the Copa? Will their club release them if they wanted to?

    If we do have the Copa, that's clearly the A team. Which means the overage players for the Olympics will not likely be the top starters. @Eleven Bravo did a really nice layout of the Olympic options and it makes a ton of sense to overage CBs. Since you don't rotate a ton, I could see CBs 3/4 at the Olympics. But the other overage player? If everyone is at Copa America, tough to say.
     
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  16. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will be shocked if anyone plays in both. No way European clubs allow someone who plays in the Copa to play in the Olympics and MLS teams won’t want to release a player for both either.

    The only exception will be if it’s someone like Reggie Cannon during 2021 when he was in a not great club situation and played in both the Gold Cup and Nations League.

    If the Copa happens I would bet that the overage age guys are MLS vets (Zimmerman or Acosta types), or fringe Euro guys who aren’t quite part of the A team yet.
     
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  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Essentially, then, that becomes a matter of priority. Olympics v Copa America. I think Copa America should take precedent. It’s the bigger tournament. But we may just have to wait and see how the player pool evolves.

    Now, if I had any of my u23 on the bench (ie, Scally), or if maybe I had someone who I could trade out with minimal drop off (ie, Musah and Reyna for Aaronson and ???), maybe, we could have our cake and eat it too.

    I’d still take two over-age center backs because we have enough old guys to go around and not enough quality u23 center backs for that position to not be a liability.

    The change that I would have to make is the Adams/Pulisic as my third over-age player. Then, that would have to go to probably the best over-age player who could be an impact on the u23 without hurting the senior team.

    To tell the truth, it wouldn’t be beyond reason to actually take James Sands, who can play CB and CDM, AND our next best 2 other center backs from our starting XI to give them some reps. It’s truly only at center back, as it stands now, that I’m worried about being exposed.

    From what I can tell, even if we sent Scally, Pepi, Reyna, and Musah to the u23’s, we could still have a solid roster to send to the Copa America’s, although there might be a slot or two filled by the “unpopular choices” of a few guys like Jordan Morris, Cristian Roldan, and so forth. But these guys would still be depth guys and probably won’t feature except in an emergency or as a sub. I don’t think that would be a call to shame us for disrespecting the tournament.

    Looking at the player pool now, I believe that our depth would stretch further if we moved to a diamond or empty bucket 442 rather than 433 at the Copa America. We have enough forwards who could make the roster to justify taking a position or two away from the wing where our depth is a little thinner at the over23 age group once you get past our core.

    Personally, that suits the way I wish the USMNT would evolve anyways. Focus on developing a more direct, counter attacking strike partnership style of play than trying to win games by hardly creating any chances but playing a beautiful play out of the back slow progression style of play. But, that’s my preference. I don’t know who the coach will be yet nor his vision for the team so I’m imposing what I’d do more than what I think the coach will do.

    We’ll see. But I believe we can make it happen and be competitive in both tournaments.
     
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  18. YNWA Rob

    YNWA Rob Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Nov 12, 2020
    Indiana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Figueroa is listed by LFC as Honduran. Is he USA-eligible?
     
  19. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    He's playing for the US U-17s so he's either eligible or has someway to become eligible. They're not going to play him otherwise. p.s. Maynor's son.
     
  20. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I imagine one is a goalie. That always seems to happen, but if Gaga gets released it wouldn’t be necessary. In terms of most helpful positions, probably 6, striker and maybe CB?
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    theres also the kid st at athletico, but lets be honest here- the reason we have this current "golden generation" (im not interested in an argument over terminology) is weve had a hugely disproportionate number of "hits".

    all these kids are more likely to be be ben lederman than christian pulisic. a couple of konrads is probably the most realistic outlook- you just hope for the best.

    thats why it annoys the hell out of me that we take our incredible "luck" over the last few years for granted, bitching about hero ball (pulisic) and inconsistency (mckennie) and downplaying ability (reyna).
     
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  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Gotta have the combo of talent + passport to start from the euro youth ranks before breaking through at 17/18.
     
  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3573 xbhaskarx, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    Is that kid at Liverpool any good, I figuered he's a maynor talent...

    Federico Oliva?

    Even if we don't have the same number of hits as this cycle, "a Ben Lederman and a couple of Konrads" would be zero hits, so let's hope it's significantly better than that!

    I think you may be a bit pessimistic here, even if the percent of hits drops in half from this cycle, the total number of hits could be similar if the overall pool of prospects is larger. And you'd think it would be, with a greater number of kids going abroad at a young age, a greater number of dual nationals already abroad, more European clubs signing Americans *because* of the recent hits, more MLS teams and academies than ever before, those MLS teams getting better at selling players, and even some guys coming out of USL now...
     
  24. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    rodrigo neri
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Euro clubs don't have to release players for either the Copa (as we're a guest nation) or ANY YOUTH COMPETITION. That includes the Olympics. So it'll be a big negotiation with all of the clubs about when and if they can be released.

    But the last time we played in Copa America, we were able to get our "A" team. So I don't have a real concern about that. But its highly, highly unlikely that they're also at the Olympics.

    The only way is if a club is trying to sell a player. That's supposedly what happened with Reggie Cannon in 2021. He was in the shop window.
     
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