Where does US soccer need to improve?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Dec 4, 2022.

  1. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    We are NO closer to the level of the elite countries than we were 25 years ago.
    At the athletic level alone, we are further away.

    Clint must be taking a cruise on Denial.
     
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  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    No, we are, we have the players now, we didn't really have the players 25 years ago. Now we have orders of magnitude more players of this level than ever before. We don't have the coaching, and we don't have guys in their prime, and every game is, in its own way, moments and stories.

    In 2002 We dominated a half against Portugal and that was enough, we buried a chance and then defended the rest of the game against S. Korea, got unlucky and rolled by Poland, scored and then defended all game against Mexico. The only game where we legit attacked and attacked and attacked confidentally was against Germany. The approach won out in 2002, but it easily could have lost. South Korea blew a wide open shot with minutes left and we got home group stage just like we would in '06 after a ref botches an obvious dive for a PK. 2006 turns on one half of play against Slovenia or we go home, and 1998 was a total ---- show period.

    This tournament, when not exhausted, we basically controlled 4 of 6 halves, and were dominant against Wales, and against England and against Iran (until the last 20-30). The gassed out nearly lose the lead disasters this cup were a product of Berhalters design and call ups for the tournament, not at all reflected in qualifying so I'm not worried about that.

    I get being annoyed that we hit a wall again at the R16's like El Tri has done until now, but there is no arguing the player pool is more than 10x what it was twenty years ago when we made the quarters. We are building out depth and answers right now nearly everywhere save LB, CB, and Strikers (and maybe 6 which remains a problem behind Adams). This is just way way way different from 30 years ago or 25 years ago. The coaching is a problem, we insist on Americans despite none of our coaches being at the cutting edge of anything, so that hurts us, and the youth of the team mixed in with player specific and position specific issues make us vulnerable.

    We will aim for the quarters and beyond in '26, maybe we do it, maybe we don't. We'll see, but right now, already, we see the progress in CL minutes, Big 5 minutes and the way we actually play in tournaments. 25 years ago we would have never taken the game to Wales, and England and Iran and hell, tried to against the Netherlands, now we do.

    The results may be the same, the performance wasn't, at all. It was full of potential for the future, and in the present. That wasn't consistently true at all in 1998 or 2002.
     
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  3. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    I had fun watching the Samba Kings the other day. And then I realized, phuc, we're kidding ourselves if we think we can get into the top echelon of footballing nations if we just rely on our present course. Yeah, I know, our youth programs have improved quite a bit, esp. from USSDA to MLS Next. We rightly applaud the MLS clubs who are sincere in their investment in youth development. But it's not enough. There has to be a sea change in the culture.

    We saw what Richarlison did in the 2nd goal against South Korea. Nobody in the history of U.S Soccer can come close to what he did. And he ain't the only one there. Just go down that roster. U.S. kids can't even imagine the time and passion that Brazilian kids have for the ball. Kobe Bryant had the Mamba Mentality. They have the Samba Mentality.

    What Tom Byer has done to help Japan is something we need on a large scale, not just here and there, like with what the Houston Dynamo are doing. It's nice to see all these rec programs nationwide. But they're there primarily to get kids moving, to provide a safe place where they can get some fresh air, etc. But the soccer part is an afterthought. We need kids to see and experience the creativity and passion of soccer at very young ages and then provide the right soccer environments, like Futsal, for those who have the interest and desire. And we need to find ways to mitigate the pay to play structure.
     
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  4. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bingo. My biggest improvement as a player was small sides games with little to no coaching. As a fullback taught to bout the ball (this was 70s), the small sided game was a game changer. I had to learn how to maintain possession, move off the ball, and be comfortable dribbling.

    This is a less of a problem with today's development, but the joy that I had carried over to when I was an adult and played small side games 5v5, 6v6 two or three times a week for almost 30 years.

    Develop that joy, allow players to develop on their own. Soccer should not be too structured. It's about the game and players. Drives me nuts all the discussion around coaches, formations, and structure. It's a factor, but it's not going to drive development.
     
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  5. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s humbling to watch the Brazilians…
     
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  6. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For those who are more in the know than I am, what sort of training and camps are MLS teams putting on for the under ages of 10? As MLS (and USL) expands and becomes more stable, you would think that MLS teams would take more of the responsibility of the overall development of the young, young kids in their area. So much of becoming that elite player is having a sound foundation of the fundamentals before the age of 10. Trapping, passing, dribbling, etc.

    How involved are MLS/USL teams involved in u10, u8, u6 soccer? In the whole of their “homegrown territory?”

    Of course, that age is much before the age that players are going to take the game seriously. But it also is the age where coaches who know what they’re doing can increase the overall quality of play down the road.

    But how many of us have seen where middle school and high school kids are just learning the basics? As a whole, I think this has improved. But it’s still an area where we probably want to see more improvement.
     
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  7. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    A lof of what will, our could get us to the top 4-5 countries is way beyond anything an organized structure can take on. The cultures of the top 4-5 countries live and breathe soccer. We don't and we probably never will on the national scale of Brazil, Argentina, or England. It's not going to happen. If that is the expectation, then we need to get ready to be disappointed. We have too many sports competing amongst each other to get there. And that's ok.
     
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  8. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True.

    At the same time, we don't need soccer to be culturally engrained as the top sport to have similar success given our population in comparison. We need a considerably less % of our population to be huge soccer fans/participants.

    USA population I think is around 330M.

    Argentina: 46M
    England: 56M
    France: 65M
    Netherlands: 17M

    All four combined is 55% of the US population.
     
  9. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Philadelphia Union offers training sessions for 5-8 yr old as supplement to their club training during winter. They also have for older ages. Costs about $150 for 4 x 1.5 hr sessions so not for everyone. But, there are way more youth players in the area than the Union could possibly address so they depend on clubs and particularly development academies to train and develop youth as feeders.. Clubs around here are pretty good about training the younger ages. For example, best trainers at club I used to be associated with all worked with the youngest ages as it is a critical time for development. The downside is this all costs $ for parents and everything requires driving a kid somewhere to train. But, the US isn’t say a Germany that has 31,000 clubs in their tiered structure.
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the information. This seems like a good point to “teach a man how to fish”. In other words, take Philly for example, use the main club as the hub for coaches to gather and learn how to improve their coaching and so forth.

    Again, I don’t know what Philadelphia, and others, are already doing. But I hope that something like this is happening.
     
  11. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    You're already seeing the effect of three massive changes in the very beginning parts in the pipeline:

    1. The availability and pushing of good-enough guidance for parents and coaches for how to teach young kids the game, contrasted with the well-intentioned cluelessness and counter-productivity of decades past

    2. Mass exposure to the professional game on TV and the internet, contrasted with the near total blackout for someone with normal media consumption of decades past. Soccer no longer ends at the minivan door.

    3. Knowledge of the existence of pathways to the elite of the sport equivalent to those in football, basketball, etc, contrasted with the idea of a pro soccer career being strange and foreign and hypothetical in decades past.

    Night and day changes in terms of what an MLS academy is starting with when it gathers up the best 14-15 year olds in their area.

    And now the next steps. Then the next ones. Then the next ones. It can always be one unit better. Keep chopping wood.
     
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  12. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    As more and more adults have played soccer at better and better levels, the kids will benefit. The parents will instill the importance of fundamentals.
     
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet, here's the country with the most World Cup trophies by far, and the best talent pretty much every time, since their last championship in 2002:
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I think they just got overconfident at the end today. I figured if it went to PKs the Croats would win because they wouldn't try to be cute; they'd just slam the ball in to the net. I thought the Dutch would win for the same reason, but tired legs I guess. The game is just becoming a European thing; Morocco will need luck to get past Portugal, but if any team can fall apart when they are favored, it's Portugal. Euros are winning on different continents now. Whatever the hell happened to Germany and Italy I don't know, but as much as I dislike Argentina and their cynical tactics , I'd rather them win it then another Euro team ( except England; cultural ties there ). I don't think Argentina has what it takes to win the whole thing right now. This is still France's cup to lose, unless the English have something to say about it. And yes, I'm all over the place.
     
  15. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s crazy to think they haven’t won since 2002…
     
  16. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    When you consider that in 2006 Ronaldo was fat, Roberto Carlos and Cafu were cooked, and Adriano wasn't half the player we thought he was at the time, 2022 is almost certainly their best and most complete team since.

    You look at the side they sent out there in that 2014 semifinal (missing their two best players in fairness) and it's a wonder anyone was surprised.
     
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  17. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As recently as 2005 or 2006, there were still rookies getting into MLS who had literally never seen a professional match before they played in one. As recently as 2003, MLS was sending out a form letter to every senior in all three NCAA divisions (I know because I received one as a D3 player) to inform them that opportunities to continue playing professionally existed in the United States and invite them to consider declaring for the MLS draft.

    The thing is... we've now been a relatively consistent R16 team for about a decade and a half. We've done it in three WC appearances in a row. But the step to from consistent R16 to relatively consistent quarterfinalist is much bigger than from consistent qualifier to consistent R16. Mexico has never been able to make that step. Everyone who makes the quarters the majority of the time is also a perennial World Cup contender. Even Portugal is not in that group -- Portugal is in the quarters for the first time since 2006.
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We do need it to be ingrained enough to have a reasonably high density of good youth players. Talent develops talent. The best youth players get better by being challenged, which happens when they play with and against other top players. While the introduction of MLS academies has helped with this, our spread-out population makes it a serious logistical challenge to have our best youth players face each other on a regular basis. And that means we need the sport to be ingrained enough that all of our top youth players face strong enough local opposition to keep them developing.
     
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  19. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is only going to come about when each MLS grows to the point that it starts building satellite academy teams around the area.

    For example, that means teams like Atlanta United needs to have satellite academies and invest in development in the state and surrounding areas. Same for all these other clubs. Don’t just stay within immediate driving distance of your club. Get out and spread the game. Outreach, outreach, outreach.

    Because maybe you can make the commute, from say, Atlanta to Orlando, on occasion, but you’re going to wear out a bunch of middle schoolers and high schoolers if that’s their only local competition.

    Because, maybe, the next superstar might be somewhere like Nacogdoches, Texas.

    Besides, we’ve got the talent in many of these cities. Heck, Augusta, GA is about the size of Middlesbrough, and there are plenty of kids in this town and the surrounding areas playing the game. Surely, if you coach them up right, you could give the Atlanta kids more direct and local competition. Same thing across the country.

    But, again, we’re going to have to get out of this mindset that all the talent is only located in these mega metropolises.
     
  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We need a Bonafide 9 that has a nose for goal.

    Two CBs

    Backup wingers that are at the same level as our starters.

    A back 6.

    A starting LB
     
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Three areas where MLS teams need to improve greatly:

    1.) More teams need to have a plan and vision for how they want to play, and what kind of players fit that style of play. This is why Philly has had sustained success since 2018. Philly knows how they want to play. They also have player profiles for each position. They know what characteristics they value at each position. This helps them identify the types of players that will be successful playing for them. I would say 80%-85% of the teams in MLS don't do both of these things. It's largely why teams miss on signings, and a big reason why those signings struggle in the league.

    2.) Investing in scouting departments. The majority of the league doesn't. Those few teams that do are the ones that are successful; every season. Scouting is tied into the first point of emphasis.

    3.) Investment in sports performance, science and analytics departments. I'm not saying teams need to go crazy on analytics. Using data to help drive informed decision making is a good thing though. Particularly with sports science and performance. This can aid coaches with training loads, managing minutes, etc. It helps prevent injuries, and helps players perform at that best at all times (games and training). Most MLS teams will be playing 40 games a season, if not more (USOC, Leagues Cup, Playoffs, CCL). Teams need to get the most out of their players, and keep them performing at their best. This is an often overlooked aspect of professional sports, and player development.
     
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  22. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    More thoughts on this subject

     
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  23. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’ll be criminal if one day he isn’t the head coach of the USMNT. He was born for the position. He has such a magnetic and infectious energy.
     
  24. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    He is a phenomenal communicator. I bet players love to play for him.
     
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  25. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He seems to channel our best instincts as humans. He does a wonderful job straddling being realistic with aspiration and recognition of potential.

    “You can will yourself to do great things.”
     
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