Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. Step Over

    Step Over Member

    Oct 18, 2008
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we feel US Soccer is convinced we need to go with an American (I don't agree with that BTW) why is Brian Schmetzer not ever listed as an option? I don't know about his playing career but, Jesie Marsh and Jim Curtain weren't US Stars. He's had more sucess then Jim Curtain. 2 MLS Cups and first MLS CCL title in current format must mean something. The fact he won CCL against odds seems like something we would consider if we're trying to punch above our weight.
     
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  2. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me explain my strong opposition to Martinez. In the first place, I think a lot of the love for the guy in some quarters around here stems from the fact he was a good looking, eloquent commentator on ESPN in past WC's (does that sound a little like someone else who once managed the USMNT???). However, when you dig into his actual managerial record it's VERY underwhelming. Roberto Martinez managed teams underachieve/get worse under his stewardship. Let's start with Wigan. In the 4 PL seasons prior to him taking over Wigan finished 10th, 17th, 14th and 11th. In Roberto's 4 seasons they finished 16th, 15th, 15th and 18th (relegated). Martinez couldn't manage a better finish at Wigan than Paul Jewell or the much derided Steve Bruce! At Everton in the 3 season prior to him taking over they finished 7th, 7th and 6th. In Roberto's 3 seasons they were 5th, 11th and 11th...and once he was gone they'd go on to finish 7th, 8th and 8th.

    As for his time in charge of Belgium. The 2018 WC (I'm assuming that's what you were referring to above when you said 2014) is obviously his high point. But let's be honest, that was one of the two most talented squads in the world and a semi appearance was really just about meeting expectations (the equivalent of the US making it out of the group stages). And then in his next two tournaments he had a QF departure in the Euros and a Group Stage departure at this WC. While Belgium's Golden Generation is certainly aging out, I would consider both of those results to be underwhelming/disappointments.
     
  3. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Criterion #1: enough tactical flexibility to fit tactics to the pool, not vice versa
    Criterion #2: enough humility to respect US soccer (foreign applicants only)
    Criterion #3: proven record of success producing teams with both defensive and offensive competence/potency
     
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  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    One thing I'd like to see a new or the same coach as well as the US federation strongly consider playing in the Copa America once again.

    I understand the crowded schedule etc but as the US player pool is quite large and many players playing abroad, I’m sure you can have two full teams.

    Although it didn’t help the 2016-17-18 cycle, I can’t see how playing in a tournament like that won’t help players development or experience for the future.
     
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  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All true. He also got SK into the second round, beating Portugal and drawing with Uruguay. Let's see what they do against Brazil. They will probably lose, but let's see how they lose. He has experience coaching 2 World Cup teams as well as managing Sporting CP, Cruzeiro, Olimpiacos, and a Chinese club Chongqing Liangjiang. That's a pretty good resume. Mourinho, for example, has never coached at the World Cup. It's a different animal.
     
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  6. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ramos would be a nightmare...i hate greggs usmnt but ramos would def be even worse.
     
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  7. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    low doesnt know tactics....had to hire an assistant for that. no thanks.
     
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  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I just looked it up and in the 2 seasons Tab Ramos coached the Houston Dynamo, he managed to win 10 games,

    That's not so good.
     
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  9. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    Patrick Vieira
     
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  10. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matarazzo got canned from VfB Stuttgart in October and I doubt Jesse Marsch wants a National Team gig at this time.
     
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  11. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I get what you're saying but who the hell meets #3? All coaches will have weaknesses.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Thanks for the pro breakdown. Helpful.

    I would say this: in a single elimination tournament, meeting expectations by hitting the semis is still an accomplishment. The second best team's -- and I'm not sure they were that but let's roll with it -- chances of making the semis/finishing second are well below 100%.

    So meeting expectations here is a good result to my mind. They came close to beating France, and frankly France was an absurd favorite.
     
  13. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Willingness to hire an expert on tactics seems like a plus to me.
     
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  14. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    How about some semblance of balance, then?
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We don't agree on much, but Ramos is nowhere near ready as a coach for this team.
     
  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Jesse Marsch isn't doing that great in England.

    So far Leeds United is in 15th place and only 3 points above a relegation spot.

    I don't see how that will help him land any future jobs anywhere else although it could make him readily available for the national team.
     
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes this is why Matarazzo is available. And if there’s an opening you kick the tires on Marsch even if it’s unlikely he takes it.
     
  18. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    After doing very well with them IMO overall.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I definitely agree that coaches aren't magic; the players are the key. I do think there's a bunch of coaches who can do a capable job. That said...

    ...I think that a coach can be devastatingly bad for a team. So you have to avoid the disaster scenarios. That's probably #1 -- avoid a hire that creates a meltdown, or worse in some ways, just simmering discontent.

    I think with the World Cup in the US, we also want a strong tactical manager with tournament experience. We should be looking for someone who can effectively gameplan and anticipate opponents -- especially better ones -- to try and make some kind of run. Someone who can manage the group stage as well -- no Herdmans.

    I think once you cross section that with National Team managers it gets much smaller. There's a sort of implicit assumption we can go get one, but a lot of these guys only do their own nationality. The US pool is full of safe culture guys, most likely, but there's no tactical ringers in the bunch.

    I find it telling that even with a blank slate, there's not a lot of names here that don't get blasted by someone.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Schmetzer's had success. He's said himself that his assistants do his tactics. I'm not sure that is humility or just the reality.

    I do think that he's a good man manager but might have trouble establishing credibility with this group. Berhalter had World Cup experience and his tactics geek and prep in comparison to a relatively blase JK and Arena on those points probably built some credibility.

    I think most of the Americans are in that bucket, ex the guys who have coached in Europe and Bradley/Arena.

    Schmetzer, Curtain, Vanney, etc. I actually loved Vanney's run in 2017 with Toronto -- dude was super tactically flexible and romped through the playoffs. But this year with LA he seemed to stubbornly stay away from their most effective formation to keep high priced underperformers on the field. Which probably says less about him and more about things we never see or hear.
     
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  21. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically when Klinsmann was coach Low did the tactics, when Low was the coach, Flick was responsible for tactics, now that Flick is coach I wonder who is the one responsible for tactics.
     
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  22. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    I do think the next coach question is really complicated. I have to assume we want to go with an American, right? If not than that opens up some interesting options, but I am guessing they want an American.

    And in that case, I am not in love with any options.

    Marsch is probably front runner based on club resume, but he is more of an ideologue than Berhalter! And Marsch subscribes to a system that leaks goals, and would be really hard to implement at the NT level.

    After that you're really getting in the weeds. The only other option I know enough to comment on is Curtin. I think he has young and promising, has had success with two different formations, values defense, was able to introduce a successful tactical wrinkle this year, values youth - but at the end of the day has 0 European experience and 0 pedigree. Plus he has said he wants to try European Club coaching one day too.
     
  23. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can blame a lot of that on COVID and Nations League nonsense
     
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  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is where Van Gaal really got Berhalter. This is his 3rd World Cup and he’s coached in so many different leagues/competitions where he’s really seen it all. I mean he’s even been in positions where he was Berhalter to someone else’s Van Gaal.

    One of the things we’re going to need is a coach who can manage the team in a way where we don’t have to empty the tank just to get out of the group stage. Of course in 2026 we’ll be in Pot A and the larger field should also further dilute the strength of the group.
     
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  25. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would be a pipe dream, but he does an incredible job with youth and his teams always play great attacking football. Don't think he's interested in international coaching right now though. I think he wants to get experience abroad and come back and coach Argentina when the time is right.
     

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