Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry to keep coming back to the 7th minute (soccer IQ of 78). Ream and Zimmerman can't find someone they feel comfortable passing to and instead pass it back and forth. Finally Ream tries a pass that gets picked off and soon leads to the Dutch goal. Why doesn't a US midfielder track back and give them an easy option?

    Is this an example of a rigid Berhalter system? BTW, the insistence of many posters here that the CBs should be better passers into "advanced midfield" is doctrinaire in its own right since the Dutch will be trying to cut off those long passes.
     
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  2. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    To be honest, I haven't given that point a lot of thought, but this sounds reasonable.

    On a note unrelated to Berhalter or his choices this cycle, in general I personally think that giving the Olympics any sort of priority in the program is a silly proposition, as it is of greatest benefit to the sorts of U23 players that are least likely to become foundational players in our pool. The majority of posters here and the public disagree with me on that and value the Olympics as a goal in itself, mostly because of casual fan eyeballs, even though it's just a U23 tournament.

    I'm with you on the Gold Cup, but I wonder how much that had to do with his feeling that players like Gio and Musah needed a break. They did. At least they did.
     
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  3. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    I don’t think the difference is between who finish their chances.
    Every attack Dutch had are creating all kinds of chaos. Every attack US had are toothless.
    Toothless attacking is nothing new and it is kind of GGG’s trademark.
     
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  4. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Sure, but we really didn't create much. The Dutch never had to get out of 3rd gear. Wright's big chance was created by the Dutch.
     
  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Klopps classic Liverpool would be the example. They had a functional midfield that did not have many goals and assists. But what they also had was Mane, Salah, and prime Firmino. They also had unusual fullbacks who greatly contributed with assists.
     
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  6. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haji Wright should have finished this chance.
    [​IMG]
    The goalkeeper has committed himself to moving left. All his weight is on his right foot. If Haji flicks the ball left he can slot the ball into the net with his left foot.
     
  7. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Your point is valid, but the Ream bad pass didn't really lead to the goal. The dutch attacked, but we were able to clear (could've really retained possession there but McKennie kinda lost it). We had minutes to set up defensively after that and we did. The blame there is like 0.01% on from the Ream pass.
     
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  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
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  9. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Wright's momentum was goint to his right - just needed a softer first touch and it's a goal.
     
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  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    That was a combo of player fatigue, mental fatigue, our general tendency to lack intelligent movement, and as Doyle very aptly points out, man marking through the middle that left the mids and CBs clueless as to where to move and where to move the ball. Ream did the right thing by creating space with his dribbling a couple of times in the first half.
     
  11. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    I remember thinking during the game when the announcers first mentioned the man marking; jeez, sure seems like a great spot to insert a 10 like Aaronson who is such a jitterbug on the pitch he would be dragging his defender all over the pitch, opening up lanes for the rest of the team.
     
  12. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    [​IMG]
     
  13. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DoctorD - You started to see that later with Wes dropping to help build. I’m guessing the initial plan was to keep the midfield high and build through Dest. Which often works, but whenever we couldn’t get it to Dest, we struggled. This game and England.
    Ideally Adams develops his ability to get on the ball and dictate, but we’ll see.
     
  14. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    If he does, and maintains his athletic dominance, then we're talking about one of the 2-3 best defensive midfielders in the game, N'Golo Kante-caliber. I hope so, but it's a big ask.
     
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  15. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Weah has a good shot
     
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  16. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No one who watched today thinks the US has leveled up in world soccer. We were as tough a test 20 years ago as we are today
     
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  17. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    One time that shit.
     
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  18. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Well, then, "no one" knows what the hell they're talking about, frankly. 20 years ago we were the Aussies. If you can't see the difference between the Aussies and us (and I'm talking about the product on the field, not player pedigrees), then I really don't know what to tell you. If you think the Aussies are likely to have as good an upcoming cycle as we likely will, then I really don't know what to tell you...
     
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  19. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Possibly - couldn't tell from the angle and didn't see the replay. Still going to the left like the poster I quoted suggested would've been the last option.
     
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  20. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Any option is better than donkey touch. Gregg should've just as well brought Zardes
     
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  21. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    "Classic Higuain mistakes" seems like a weird thing to say, given that Higuain was one of the best forwards in the world in his prime, and also a very good finisher (actual goals exceeding expected goals) in the analysis I've seen of him.

    In this study, he's close to the top in that regard:

    https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/quantifying-finishing-skill/

    Of course, Higuain did miss a big chance in a World Cup final, a fact which tells you exactly nothing about his overall finishing ability, for reasons that should be obvious.
    I'm not sure how having a defender three yards behind you translates into "time and space." How long do you think it takes the defender to cover three yards, compared to the amount of time required to control the ball and try to round the keeper?

    Also, Pulisic has scored more EPL goals with his left foot (11) than with his right (7).

    The shot could have been better placed, but it was cleanly struck, on frame, and forced a kick save and rebound. I find it bizarre to conclude that this play was somehow indicative of a general shortcoming in Pulisic's ability.
     
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  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  23. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I thought the Aussies looked good....I don't think we are miles ahead of them. i think we'd struggle against them quite frankly. if we can't dictate the game to El Salvador, we can't take it easy against Australia. I give them credit for achieving what they did this cycle. Soccer is also not the big sport there; cricket and Aussie rules and Rugby are.
     
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  24. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Continue to believe xG is massively understating their first 2 goals. They were pretty straightforward finishes. Not really marked and didn’t need to be in a corner.
     
  25. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is the one we scored even quantifiable?
     
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