Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t trust USSF and would not be surprised they stay with Berhalter until 2026 although he was outcoached in both the Wales match and today.
     
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  2. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jedi has been an absolute warrior. Love that guy.

    But I get your points.
     
  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    True, but that's largely a function of UEFA's Nations League. There's nothing we can do about that. Lots of other good sides outside of UEFA and CONMEBOL bemoan the same issue. The best we can do is enter ourselves as a guest in as many other tournaments as will have us, and do the best we can with the players that we can get released.
     
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  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Not playing well didn't just materialize out of nothingness. So, there is a discussion as why the team didn't play well.
    Players tend to do that, rather than blame tactics or personnel
    You limit yourself to GGG's vision. But the team didn't have to be put together that way.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I love this team. We did not play well today, and they will be kicking themselves for four years. But they are talented, hardworking and likeable. They will get better. And we will add more talent.

    We aren't anywhere near in overall skill to a Brazil or a Spain and we don't have as much talent as the Netherlands. We can play with them, and we CAN beat them. But I do think we need to be realistic where our strengths lie.

    I'm an enjoy the ride guy. I thought we had a good shot at the Dutch and today, we didn't get it done. Now it's back to work, which is going to be fun as well.
     
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  6. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member+

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    If they’re two goals better than the team they’re playing they’ll do just fine. Lady Luck was not a factor. Fatigue, yes. Ideas, yes.
     
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  7. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Thought it was a FIFA sanctioned event actually, though maybe a guest nation it wouldn't count. We sent a crap squad before because we prioritized the Gold Cup. Unless they make us qualify for the WC, we have to really try to get our best together every chance the next 4 years.
     
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  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking how the players performed that came in, and the alternatives on the bench, I really don't think there was anything alternative from a personnel standpoint in this game that could have been done to change the outcome.

    The reality was either:

    A. we just didn't have the personnel in our pool to beat the Dutch on the day as sharp as they were

    OR

    B. to make this a coin toss like many believed it would be going in we needed better integration throughout the cycle and/or to take more chances in rotation in a group stage. That could have reduced our chances to advance, but improved our shot had we made it thru. Then we'd have gotten more from the MMA midfield, fb's, had more quality to bring off the bench, and possibly a starting 9 that looks like belongs.

    Otherwise, from a tactical standpoint, not many would have liked it, but we maybe could have played old school football, given them the ball, stayed in an organized shape, and then tried to break with speed. Who knows if it would have worked. But in retrospect, seeing how tired these players were with lack of rotation, it probably would have given us a better shot at a result, albeit an ugly one.
     
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  9. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    It doesn't count as a guest nation, but the Gold Cup does count as a sanctioned event. That is THE REASON that we prioritize the Gold Cup. It really isn't much of a discretionary choice.
     
  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heck. We could form a good competition with Asia and Africa.

    Group A:
    USA
    Australia
    Nigeria
    Ghana

    Group B:
    Mexico
    Iran
    Cameroon
    Senegal

    Group C:
    Canada
    South Korea
    Tunisia
    Ivory Coast

    Group D:
    Costa Rica
    Japan
    Morocco
    Egypt

    ....That would still be a good competition.
     
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  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    If we have our ---- together, and supposedly Canada already picked themselves up quick enough to do this, we need to lock in Copa America '24 because that's our only chance w/this group for legit competition before the next Cup. We book that, we have the Copa America and the Olympics 18 months from now following the U20 World Cup this coming May. That's legit. We have nothing else unless they reopen discussions for a Nations League Champions League Competition like was rumored and never spoke of against five years ago.

    Agree on all your points. Maybe Robinson and Richards are healthy and lock down CB for '26. A couple of interesting prospects.

    A majority want us to can the coach, but I'd put it at 65-35 he's retained.
     
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  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the vast majority of people here like Wes.

    There is one very vocal troll whose girlfriend Wes stole in high school.

    One of our biggest problems this tournament is that it really hurt us that he wasn't fit to go 90 minutes, but that's due to injury.

    He can play on my team any time...
     
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  13. NorcalHockeyhooligan

    Feb 25, 2012
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait….what!? Qatar took part in UEFA qualifying!?!? How does that even work? How does FIFA justify a non European country taking part in European qualifying? Or was it like a Copa America tournament, so a country not part of that region can be an invited guest?
     
  14. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    If the CONMEBOL/UEFA thing happens, we'd have to arrange this, and by arrange I mean pay for it. Start sending in the USSF donations, guys.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep.

    There was a play late where Aaronson had the ball on the break still in our half. He had a guy right in front of him and instead of passing, he dribbled him. He did, and the dude fouled him for a yellow ... but everyone in my room was like, so? That's exactly what he wanted.

    Dribbling is not a useless skill, but it has limited use in a lot of situations, especially in the midfield or in early transition. I don't want to call it selfish -- it's part of our instinct. It's Pulisic not passing to Sargent in minute 2' of the Iran game; it's Aaronson here in the 88' minute not making the smart pass.

    He absolutely can beat that guy, but the foul was predictable. Everyone knew our break was done.

    Yeah, we're a technical team for a US team, maybe even for a CONCACAF team. Compared to most UEFA teams or the top CONMEBOL. Nope.

    Dest, Pulisic and Reyna are by far the most technical here. But you need more. And some of our guys are either inconsistent or lacking in certain areas. Like said, we're not a strong passing team.

    People focus on the gameplan, and that has value. But most decisions are made by the players, and I would say our tactical awareness is definitely a gap for the US player.

    We've improve first touch and dribbling immensely. We need to improve finishing and passing. But the biggest gap is the sort of tactical awareness of where your teammates are going to be, where you should pass, where your opponent will move. We have it in places, but we clearly struggle compared to countries with a stronger culture.

    All part of the journey.
     
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  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If this team can replace the Roldan’s, Morris’, etc. on this team with the next Musah and company. In other words, we don’t have a dip in quality production and we keep producing young players at the rate we produced them this cycle. You have to feel better about our chances.
     
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  17. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I trust that Stewart and McBride would be more aspirational than that.
     
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  18. DCU1984

    DCU1984 Member+

    Jan 15, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean Pulisic is constantly attacking from central positions. With Jedi staying high and wide. Been that way for a while now.
     
  19. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think Jedi == Odonker if you remember him from Germany in 2006. He's a good 2nd half sub to come in and run at tired legs. The future is Scally (IMHO)

    Also: I thought Yedlin looked pretty sharp in his limited minutes. Made me wish we had seen more of him.
     
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  20. Kirium

    Kirium Member

    Jun 18, 2007
    Edmond, OK

    good post. Agree with most of it. Outside of Reyna being 20 and not 18 :)
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We're not going to agree on this.

    There are things that are gameplan related. But the individual errors we made are not those.

    You can make a good argument about fatigue and rotation for sure, sometimes missed execution is just that. This is just missed marking.

    Lastly, there's nothing about Berhalter's vision that affects my view of our team's skillsets. I would love van Gaal to become our coach because I think fans would suddenly see and hear a very pragmatic view of our team and where our skills are.
     
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  22. NorcalHockeyhooligan

    Feb 25, 2012
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t watch the NBA or any other basketball but I feel it’s hockey which provides a US sport with the most competitive international competition. In international hockey, there are legit 5 countries which can win it all, and on their day, the second tier can do damage. Of course, the countries I’m talking about are all either in North America or Europe. Maybe basketball has elite competition across more continents…?
     
  23. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Coming in late to this party. Just had to go walk around the neighborhood.

    Probably most of this has been said:

    1) good job gentlemen. You all played a great WC. Young team, first WC for all but Yedlin. That is no joke. They are a team and will become a lot to handle in the coking years.

    2) coaching: Gregg is a good tactician but a bad coach and game manager. He would be a great addition to a solid coaches staff. Not enough rotation, not enough flexibility, not enough belief and trust outside of his 4 game starting 10. It was bound to fail playing like that. Guys were beat.

    3) Pulisic: what a player, he needs to learn to run as hard as you can to first even if you “know” you are out.
    Arm flapping, pouty, calling own fouls. This really is the difference between good and great. Great players hunt and push knowing they need to count in themselves and their team not a ref or “fairness”.
    Fortunately, this is something you can fix with reflection.

    4) Dest is a wingback not a full back

    5) Van Dam targeted our strength and neutralized it: Adams. I was telling my friends to watch them bait Afams to a spot and switch play. They did that in spades.

    6) Fierra starting: first sniff at the WC comes at the most difficult game in the knockouts. Gregg put him in a place to fail. Gonna take that kid awhile to shake that off.
    Had no business out there save one or two good touches. After CP’s assumed offsides half hearted strike Fierra was the albatros that hurt our team. Poor kid, come back stronger.

    Otherwise…. Status quo run. Nothing special but a lot of great experience for our amazing team. Go USA!
     
  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    1. Pay UEFA shitloads of cash
    2. ???
    3. Profit
     
  25. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scally is a right back. If the future is not ARob, it's Kevin Paredes, John Tolkin, Jonathan Gomez, or Caleb Wiley. We definitely have the future options at that position. We don't have to think so narrowly, to someone who will play narrowly, because he's right-footed.

    I'm open to playing a right-footer on the left, if you have lefty options higher up to provide the width. The only lefty I can think of that might play further up is the aforementioned Paredes. And his utility would probably be best at fb. So why not just elevate one of the natural guys.
     
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