Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They followed the England model of letting our CBs have the ball and force them to make incisive passes. Especially Zim. Ream got impatient and tried a difficult ball. They clogged the midfield. It’s very smart and difficult to beat.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    MMA is not the most creative midfield we could put out there. A more creative midfield could have potentially created more chances. It creates more than nothing which @ArsenalMetro claimed -- just look at the goal versus Iran, the McKennie pass to Weah on the offside, the Adams pass to Sargent that he screwed up, etc.

    But no, we have more creative midfields, no doubt.

    But I don't think the midfield has been the issue on set pieces.

    I don't think the executional errors by Pulisic, Sargent and Weah in transition passing choices has anything to do with them.

    I don't think Pulisic, Ream and Wright missing freaking gifts in front of this goal has anything to do with MMA. To a neutral, our finishing looked like a keystone cop.

    If you are looking at this game, the clear obvious issues were fatigue/energy, massive defensive errors, and missed chances. That's what I saw, that's what the post game show has been about, it's what EVERY article will be about.

    Not MMA doesn't create enough. If you think that's a Top 3 reason we lost this game, it's because it's in your head ahead time.

    We literally left THREE players completely unmarked because of lack of focus, effort or fatigue. We had multiple players with just the keeper there put in weak efforts while the Netherlands simply executed against our mistakes.

    I'm not saying that's good by us, and I'm not saying MMA is the most creative we could put out there and I'm not saying a more creative midfield wouldn't have yielded more chances, but holy crap, how is that your key point of how we lost?
     
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  3. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Pepi had shown that he could contribute for the national team. It’s not far fetched to think that Berhalter might’ve been fired during qualifying if it weren’t for Pepi. And Pepi’s club form was as good as any striker’s during the fall. Again, Wright had done NOTHING for the USMNT, and even showed a poor work rate when he played. I just don’t see how that can be rewarded when choosing between a bunch of flawed candidates.
     
  4. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A moment of pure euphoria…
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, but I still really struggle how that happened 10 minutes in.
     
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  6. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This debate can go a lot of ways.

    I'll just say Landon was 28 in 2010. At 24, Puli's current age, he and the team bombed in the '06 WC. Dempsey's NT highlights also came age 26 ('09 Confed Cup) and later.

    Point being if one were to point to Landon/Clint as our top two NTers ever, we're still 1-2 cycles short of judging Puli. And that pretty much applies to our entire core.
     
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  7. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yup. And 2006 Donovan was < 2022 Pulisic. Which is kinda my point...

    Landon was a ripe 29 years old in 2010 and had been through 2 world cups - and it showed.
     
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  8. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been out of BS a lot and the same old tropes persist. Gregg gets a lot of weird hate for a guy who lost 12 games, made the round of 16, won 2 minor cups, eptc.

    I think he made par. I don't really believe a popular "great" coach gets this group past the Dutch, and there's an excellent chance that we end up more defensive.

    I do believe in the one cycle to a coach though. I admit it's stupid and arbitrary, but it does freshen things. And, the blind negativity needs a new object to hate.
     
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  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'd disagree.
    1. Set pieces - again -- 30-40% of international goals
    2. #9
    3. Transition decision making
    4. Final third execution
     
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  10. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    While you aren't wrong and I mostly agree fully with you, I would say if you step back far enough that is the key point we lost because during the week when Van Gaal was drawing up his game plan, he wasn't scared of our pointless possession, he wasn't scared that us having the ball would lead to anything dangerous.

    Thus he came out with this game plan that exploited us with extreme prejudice and it worked perfectly. And the synopsis of that game plan is "USA will control possession, let them, because we have no reason to be afraid of their creativity".
     
  11. Pickles

    Pickles Member

    Jun 4, 2014
    I'm a bit drunk now, so I'll have to go back to see exactly how Haji Wright scored in the World Cup. Love to all.
     
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  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Some do. I don't know which ones, though.
     
  13. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Round of 16 should be expected -- don't get caught up in all the over-hype the media spews when we get out of the group.

    I wouldn't say GB was embarrassed, but LVG had a clear gameplan to beat us. He was fine to cede possession and let us try to beat them in the final third. He was fine to let us try to swing in crosses against his CB's. He made Ream and Zimmeran our playmakers, not MMA. The Dutch tactical plan was designed specifically to beat us and it worked.

    We can battle all we want (and we did as we always do), and we did create some chances, but other than Pulisic's early opportunity we didn't really threaten.

    Grow up yourself.
     
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  14. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I really hope Dike overcomes his injury struggles and is able to emerge in this next cycle.
     
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  15. Kilmer17

    Kilmer17 Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    If the team had each others managers who wins?
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We had a lot of good chances. Pulisic's needed to be a goal.
     
  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see a lot of comments crediting the Netherlands as having more quality.... I’m sorry, but I don’t see that.

    What I saw today was a “better” team had moments where they switched off and the other team were able to take advantage of their chances. Meanwhile, we need Haji to try not to score to actually score. Jeez. Talk about Gyasi Zardes 2.0.

    Either way, what I saw tonight was one of the unfortunate games where the game did not just go your way. But of course, that was our fault, we fell asleep 3 times. And the Netherlands is good enough to finish 90% of their good chances on goal. Meanwhile, we seem to only be good enough to finish 10% of our chances.
     
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  18. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I'm not sure being sober will help you figure it out.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    A friend over text suggested Louis van Gaal and I laughed. I think he's a great coach but BS would despise him so much. A super pragmatic, defensive, Dutch coach? He's like a better Berhalter but with everything fans hate on steroids.
     
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  20. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alternatively they were afraid to challenge us in the midfield because they thought that was a losing proposition?
     
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  21. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really hate how much of a net-negative no qualifying campaign might have on this group for 2026. And in 2-3 years we're likely to have a handful of new young talent which needs to get bred in in a competitive environment.

    It's literally multi-year negative impact until we step on the pitch game 1 in the WC.
     
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  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Comes back to cyborgs.
     
  23. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Dutch would still win. Deeper roster with more experience.
     
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  24. usfootball20

    usfootball20 Member+

    May 15, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don’t mean to just criticize everyone, but Weah also didn’t do that much this tournament after scoring his goal. He needs an aerial target. If we’re playing on the ground, he’s not really it for me. One to consider at 9 next cycle but not sure it happens.
     
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  25. Lance90

    Lance90 Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    What press? LVG played a mid-block and invited us to try and unlock his defense while waiting to spring counterattacks. We had 60% of the possession. And we gave up 2 goals in the first half. The idea that we lost because of fatigue is kind of silly.

    Bigger picture, though, if you want to rest and rotate players for the knockout rouhnd WIN your first two group games when you have the chance!
     
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