2022 Fifa World Cup Qatar Thread

Discussion in 'Korea' started by Seol Korea, Sep 12, 2022.

  1. 12th Player

    12th Player Member+

    Nov 3, 2009
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Can someone explain exactly what "possession football" is? And how it undermined our play against Uruguay and Ghana?
     
  2. kimchipride

    kimchipride Member

    Real Madrid
    South Korea
    Aug 22, 2006
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    New Japan flag lol

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. The Hyphen

    The Hyphen Member+

    Jun 29, 2014
    On the stats part you textef regsrding Japans opportunities, good teams do thi all the time They make the most of their opportunities and are clutch when it matters


    Just because they capitalized on smaller pool of opportunites doesnt make them lucky necessarily. it makes them good


    Im an occams razor type of thinker
     
  4. gunitinug

    gunitinug Member

    Sep 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    that's still in o_O
     
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  5. doraemon

    doraemon Member+

    Jan 9, 2010
    It's trying to dominate possession and methodically break down the opposing defense through certain tactical choices, such as having your players focus heavily on low-risk short passing and having your fullbacks spend a lot of time in advanced positions in order to gain numerical/positional advantages in attacking situations. The other AFC teams weren't playing like that this WC for the most part, content with low possession numbers, quick counters, and fullbacks staying deep, keeping spacing compact and prioritizing defense.

    Bento in particular demands a lot of offensive contribution from his fullbacks and often has them far up the pitch. It wasn't a big problem against Uruguay as Uruguay were surprisingly static, but Ghana successfully exploited the space KJS was leaving (also KMH to a lesser extent), especially with KMJ apparently unable to cover as well due to his injury. KJS had way too much on his plate against Ghana both offensively and defensively and ended up having a poor game despite being the most active player for us. IIRC he was the player with the highest usage on the team.

    The bigger issue IMO is the opportunity cost of sticking to possession football for every minute of every game in preparation of this WC. This team doesn't really know how to sit back defensively, absorb pressure, and break out in a counterattack. Our counterattacks aren't dangerous even though SHM is our best player. We've never been that clinical in front of goal and have a tough time scoring in congested situations, yet our offense has 0 emphasis on the counter. Our defensive organization is mediocre at best as we saw against Ghana.

    As I said, it's so telling how Japan practiced counterattacking football against Brazil while we tried to play the same possession football we played against AFC teams. Japan is reaping the benefits now.
     
  6. Fector

    Fector Red Card

    Jeonbuk FC
    Timor-Leste
    Jun 6, 2017
    #406 Fector, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
    It is similar to shooting streak in basketball. Scientific studies have shown that there is no such thing. Personally I am not so skeptical and there may be a mild form of it because concentration , confidence and the will in the right condition(ie. not hampered by too much of it as it will result in choking) can affect the shooting percentage.

    As I said multiple times in the Japan-Spain thread(from which I am now banned because I responded not very nicely to a Japanese who was not very nice), there may be certain validity to having limited chances and high concentration. It has worked for middle eastern countries especially well against Korea. Even Japan fell in a similar fashion many times. When that happens the underdogs gloat loudly as if they have the natural talent for good finish. Sort of "in your face" highs that are usually seen in ghetto sports.

    When Iran defeated Korea in 2013 for 2014 WCQ(a single shot for the entire match and 1-0) Iranians claimed just that. But they fell many times to other smaller countries in exactly the same fashion. The scorer(I forget his name) did well for a while but he returned to nobody after a while.
    There is no such thing as a footballing culture that produces good finishers. If there is, the difference is only mild and limited.

    Like there are people who are firmly convinced of "shooting streak" etc. it will be impossible to convince the "believers" but I don't think Japan found a hitherto unknown Japan specific magical quality. If there is anything to it, we have witnessed the escalation of the anti-football tactics to the world stage against world champions. AFC countries can do it to Japan and Korea but not to Spain or Germany because the difference in skills is too immense. But Japan can do it to Spain and Germany. If they try multiple times even Brazil. Brazil complained about Japan's extreme defensive tactics back in June already. It was no fluke. If the trend is set that way it is no good news to those who want to watch the game and enjoy.

    It was not entirely luck because that style of play has proven to work for a weak side against a strong opponent. But it is luck in the sense it won't work every time especially after others are more and more prepared against it.

    Doan probably has some talent to score goals in that kind of fashion. I have seen him do that in his club too. But he will never be a great player. Not even sure he is that much better than JWY in all situations.

    In short I give them partial credit but I am not that impressed by this Japan. But surely if this team reaches quarter or maybe even right now, the usual soccer bums will rate this team above Korea 2002 because they are so firmly convinced that Korea cheated in 2002.
     
  7. Fector

    Fector Red Card

    Jeonbuk FC
    Timor-Leste
    Jun 6, 2017
    There is some similarity between "Total Soccer" and "possession football". The problem with Bento is that he has one style and noting else. He thinks it is beautiful and a philosophy, we think he is a buffoon.
    He has no tactical flexibility. I am not the only one who is saying this. Even his supporters say this. Passion and love of the game can get you only so far. A good manager is someone who goes far beyond that.
     
  8. Bom23

    Bom23 Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    There's a lot here that is true. Bento set KNT up to go out there and be the aggressors from the jump, and we saw the same story vs Uruguay and Ghana. We will probably see it against Portugal tomorrow - a Korea that is trying to dominate possession with a high line, expending their energy to seize the initiative.

    You can disagree with this approach and say that we would get better results playing "counter-attacking" football. But there's also a benefit to instilling a confidence in the players that they can play equally with the world's best, instead of bunkering down and hoping to nick a lucky goal. That's a beta mindset that limits you as a player or supporter with self-esteem.
     
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  9. 12th Player

    12th Player Member+

    Nov 3, 2009
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    What doraemon described is how many, many teams play (or try to play.) these days. Deciding on your team's preferred tactical system--and when to pivot from it--is an age old question. But reducing things to "possession football" or "counter attacking football" is not really helpful in dissecting the modern game in general and KNT here and now. It's fair to criticize Bento for being tactically inflexible. I bet most fans think the same of their teams' managers at the club and international level.

    We will see how much Bento has prepped the team to defend the lanes, maintain its shape, absorb pressure and exploit the open space. But in the end, it's all about the execution by the players, isn't it? And from what I've seen in the first two matches, I believe they will do it.
     
  10. Fector

    Fector Red Card

    Jeonbuk FC
    Timor-Leste
    Jun 6, 2017
    [​IMG]

    It may be argued that the ball was barely inside at this particular moment but Newton's First Law dictates that the ball continued into the outside direction until it hit the left foot which is at least an inch or more off the ball. No way the ball was kept inside the line.
     
  11. Fector

    Fector Red Card

    Jeonbuk FC
    Timor-Leste
    Jun 6, 2017
    The Korean public ridicules all these "experts". They are called "좆문가". But they are not fools. No one criticized Bento for his possession football. He is instead criticized because it is his ONLY game plan.

    One Japanese soccer coach said that Koreans appeared to emulate Japanese. This was way back in 2013 or 14. But he said when Korea had a lot of longitudinal movement sometimes called 뻥축구 he was scared as a player. No one is claiming that Korea should revert to 뻥축구 but it should remain as an option. Even Bento has to do it time to time but he does not train his players for it. That is because he has to play the beautiful football that goes well with his "philosophy".
     
  12. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    The post game whining won't do much. This isn't a ref decision, there's a technology behind it. You can look up for yourself the VAR photo which shows the part of the ball considered in.

    Best of luck to you guys for today.
     
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  13. Fector

    Fector Red Card

    Jeonbuk FC
    Timor-Leste
    Jun 6, 2017
    There is no technology behind it. It is just a photo inspection. VAR cameras don't appear to be high speed as there is none that shows the moment of contact.
    Technology is a good excuse for those who don't understand physics and who lack common sense.
     
  14. Gayageum

    Gayageum Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    This picture is a matter of perspective. Do the following. Place a computer paper on the floor. Stand directly over the paper and place a round object next to it, but make sure the edge is hovering over the paper by a cm.

    Then walk back so that you're looking at it from the same perspective as the picture.

    Get your mind blown.
     
  15. kimchipride

    kimchipride Member

    Real Madrid
    South Korea
    Aug 22, 2006
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  16. the rainmaker

    the rainmaker Member

    DCFC
    Feb 18, 2014
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Son is a liability in the NT. Dude has zero vision
     
  17. gunitinug

    gunitinug Member

    Sep 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Prob cuz of the mask
     
  18. the rainmaker

    the rainmaker Member

    DCFC
    Feb 18, 2014
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    I posted in the wrong thread. But even in the past. He has this chip on his shoulder that he has to score when he plays with the NT.

    Though he proved me wrong with the HHC assist, i'll gladly eat my words. But it was frustrating watching him slow down the pace throughout the group stages.
     
  19. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    Guys I wanna Japan vs Korea in WC quarter finals. Do your job, we'll do ours and let's face each other in the bigger football stage ever.
     
  20. the rainmaker

    the rainmaker Member

    DCFC
    Feb 18, 2014
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    It'll take a miracle to get past Brazil..!
     
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  21. yhr88

    yhr88 Member

    South Korea
    Jun 13, 2017
    There's no way the staff and players don't recognize the errors of KJS. I'm not saying to take the dude out but his role needs to be revisited/revised.
     
  22. Testator

    Testator Member+

    Glasgow Celtic
    Croatia
    Sep 5, 2017
    Croatian coast
    TBH, the more I'm absorbing this good atmosphere from both Japanese and Korean fans, the more I'm supportive of this idea, even though it means Croatia going out. Europe's too powerful in football. Let East Asia rule!
     
  23. gunitinug

    gunitinug Member

    Sep 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    :thumbsup:
     
  24. LeeSeungWoo

    LeeSeungWoo Member+

    Jun 3, 2016
    tf Cameroon is winning against Brazil. Man I wish Swiss scored more..
     
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  25. kimchipride

    kimchipride Member

    Real Madrid
    South Korea
    Aug 22, 2006
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    One goal away from facing Switzerland instead. Ugh.
     

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