What constitutes a "great" World Cup and why?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Guinho, Nov 30, 2022.

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What constitutes a successful world cup for you?

  1. Qualifying for group stage

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. Round of 16

    18 vote(s)
    32.1%
  3. Quarterfinals

    29 vote(s)
    51.8%
  4. Semifinals

    5 vote(s)
    8.9%
  5. Finals (for you trolls out there. ;)

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  1. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's whats great. Being in the World Cup and getting to watch the USMNT play 3 high level matches. This only happens, at best, once every 4 years, so just being there is great.

    Getting out of the Group is extra great. Look no further than Australia who just advanced. Things happen in every WC. Are Denmark fans not happy? Surely not very but how about lets compare that to say ....oh I don't know....how about Italy.
     
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  2. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pot 1 teams infrequently fail to advance from their group. Not routinely.

    I think you are tripping about the US being much worse than those teams, fwiw...USA is legit in the tier of teams right after the pot 1 teams.....

    Portugal was the worse team both times they got eliminated because of the US in both of the years you mentioned, for example.

    US has tied England twice in recent WC.

    Belgium needed extra time to beat the US etc

    I think what you should have said: teams with much better reputations than the US occasionally (and shockingly) get knocked out in the group stage of every tournament.

    of course, thats why they play the games. the favorite doesnt always win. but thats obvious to anyone who isnt younger than a middle schooler.
     
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  3. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think if we beat Netherlands there are no valid arguements this isn't a successful Word Cup. I think getting out of the first round is par and means it can't be called a failed cup but winning one more puts it firmy into the successful range.
     
  4. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I'd say that the fact that a top 7-8 team (expected to finish first in their group) fails to make it out of their group entirely once or twice per tournament qualifies that as a routine occurrence. If you disagree then I think we're mainly just quibbling over the definition of the word "routine."

    But also, if you're saying that I'm wrong to consider teams like England or Portugal to be better than us, since we finished above those teams in the past, then it sounds like you're also saying that the fact that England and Portugal had more players starting at a higher level at the time than we did (I can break down each of our lineups player by player if you disagree) doesn't necessarily mean they should have been expected to beat us. If you believe that, it seems like we might need to apply that logic consistently to our team this time as well.
     
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  5. shooter6065

    shooter6065 Member

    Nov 16, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Going undefeated in the group stage, not giving up a goal in the run of play during the group stage, giving one of the best teams in the world a nightmare of a game (England did not have answers) challenging the Netherlands in a knockout...........this has been a successful World Cup no matter what happens with Holland
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #31 Clint Eastwood, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Indeed. Look at what it means to the players. Don't tell me that advancing from the group isn't a great result for this very young team. This event has been a dream come true for them. [By the way, you can also see the veteran leaders on this team. Long, Yedlin, Acosta, Zimmerman, etc. coming over to be great teammates.] I totally understand why we as fans always reach for the stars and demand more. That's fine. There are some teams that barely celebrate when they ensure advancement (see Brazil). We're not there as a soccer nation.
     
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  7. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Advancing means that the US didn't fail. Unless expectations are lowered so that the goal is merely qualifying in the first place.

    Greatness is definitely the Quarterfinals and beyond.
     
  8. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had the same problem, but it does kind of add an additional dimension. Since 2002, a great WC is making at least quarterfinals for the USMNT. However, a successful WC is where it gets more arbitrary. It takes into consideration the competition in the Group Stage and Round of 16, along with the health and age of the team. For this WC, I would say that it's already successful by getting to the Round of 16. This takes into consideration COVID, lack of games outside of CONCACAF, injuries in the past six months which has reduced form (McKenna, Reyna), and inability to find a striker (although this is debatable as other options at 9 could have been looked at more).
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think we're all circling the 2026 WC as the real destination for this group of players.

    So the performance level and experience of this group of young players to THAT goal may be immense.

    We may look back at this event, even if we lose to Holland, as an enormously important stepping stone to the ultimate goal.

    But hell, part of the mission here is to enjoy the journey as much as the destination.
    There are 195 FIFA nations that won't be playing in the round of 16 at the World Cup.
    Most of the nations on Earth would trade places with our boys in a heartbeat. That includes Italy, Colombia, Chile, Sweden, Czech Republic, Nigeria, Russia, Egypt, Norway, and a bunch of good soccer playing nations that didn't even qualify to be there.
     
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  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    They're going out as one of the worst teams of the tournament, in fact. 1 point, -2 GD. They only scored a single goal. Only Qatar and Canada are currently worse.
     
  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    And our Mexican friends have just failed to get out of the group for the first time in decades, though to their credit at least they went out with a win instead of a whimper.
     
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  12. Papin

    Papin BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 19, 1998
    le côté obscur
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The U.S. is the only Concacaf team to make it to the elimination round!

    *I jumped the gun. The ticos still have a chance.
     
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  13. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Agreed.

    While results matter - context matters as well. “Great” vs “Successful” are two different standards.

    First - qualifying at this point with 48 team expansion should basically be assumed. Not a successful coach if that happens, fire their butt.

    Second - Group Stage performance; getting through the way we did this year is success IMHO. Going through was never out of our hands and we executed to get through. If we needed Wales to beat England (and they did) then no it wasn’t enough to save the coach . Context. But minimum bar of success to me is to get Round of 16.

    Third - playing well in round of 16 is next level up from success; eg Belgium game in 2014.

    Fourth - “Great” is making it to the quarters. Until we are normally ranked in the top 10 this is a great result. If we are in the top 10 then some of my above definitions change and the semis become my definition of great.
     
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  14. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good catch. I meant "Great" in the poll. Oops
     
  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Generally...
    "Great" would be getting to the final 4, Outstanding
    Final 8, Exceeds Expectations
    Final 16, Meets Expectations
    Out in Group, Needs Improvement
    Fail to Qualify, Unacceptable

    There's some varying context though based on the strength of the group we play, and how we play in said group (or knockouts).
     
  16. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I'm still the only one with sufficiently high expectations around here. What's the matter with y'all.

    Anyhow the path forward:

    Best the Netherlands
    Beat Argentina
    Beat Brazil
    Beat France

    Si, se puede!
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A great Cup is the quarters.

    A successful Cup is a solid but losing R16.

    Par is 2nd in the group followed by getting dominated in R16
     
  19. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I love that we haven't lost.
    I love that we have several cleansheets.

    I just wanna see a match in which we score several goals.
     
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  20. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. We came close against Iran (with Weah's offside goal).

    I would be good with a 2-1 win over Holland.
     
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  21. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    I’m really surprised by the results of the poll. I’ve been called a berhalter-lover by some on this board, so I don’t think anyone would say I have unrealistic expectations.

    having said that, I think a “great” World Cup would require accomplishing something we haven’t before, and that means a semifinal appearance.

    making the knockout stage is nice because even the best teams can’t take it for granted. However, I think it’s a fair baseline expectation for us, and don’t think it’s an amazing accomplishment.

    making the quarters would be really cool because we’ve only done it once before. I would very happy with it, and call it very successful, but not great. I especially don’t think there would be any way to call a loss to this Dutch team great. I think we are only slight underdogs, and give us a 40-45% chance of winning. Even if we were facing a France or a Brazil, I wouldn’t be that excited about a close loss, as we’ve done that before against Germany and Belgium.
     
  22. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me making the quarters would be great, particularly because we'd have to beat Netherlands to do it, not a rival from our own region like we did in 2002. That counts for more imo.
     
  23. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Stay tuned … we play Grenada in March.
     
  24. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah but a home world cup with all this experience will be different....QF in a home WC with this generation wouldnt be enough IMO
     
  25. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    That's what I voted at first "Great" = Semi-Final. But the poll doesn't say great, it says "successful". So, I changed my vote to Round of 16.
     
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