Soccer, sports and politics (R)

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Nov 4, 2022.

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  1. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  2. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Wait, so that I understand you correctly:

    Costa Rica, with their -6 GD, AND their pending game vs a desperate Germany have a better chance than

    Japan, with their GD and their match vs Spain.

    I'll disagree with you on both fronts.

    Yes, Spain "technically" aren't in yet, but their points and GD means that a WHOLE LOT would have to go against them.
     
  3. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
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  4. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can only respond to what you type, and what you typed earlier was not true. Here's what you typed before:

    (a) Spain has not already won the group. (b) Japan does not need to win 7-0 for Spain to not win that group - Japan can win 1-0 for Spain to not win that group. (c) The game against Japan is not meaningless for Spain.

    Here are two scenarios under which Spain will be eliminated from the World Cup tomorrow:
    1: Japan 1-0 Spain; Costa Rica 1-0 Germany. Japan and Costa Rica advance with six points each, Spain and Germany go home.
    2. Japan 1-0 Spain; Germany 7-0 Costa Rica. Japan advances with six points; Germany and Spain both have four points and +6 goal differential, Germany goes through on goals scored, 9-8. Various other score combinations of Japan and Germany winning can result in different GD or GS to send Spain home.

    Spain solves this problem by not losing to Japan tomorrow. Therefore, they have something to play for - they're not in any way disinterested.

    When I say that Costa Rica has a better shot than Japan to advance, I'm not talking big chances here. Costa Rica has an infinitesimally small chance to advance. But Japan has even less, because they're playing Spain, and Spain is the best team in the group and needs to not lose in order to guarantee advancing. Spain is better than Germany - despite the tie between them (sometimes lesser teams manage to get a tie with better teams, see England vs USA for an example), Germany has shown they can be beaten (as evidenced by losing to Japan a week ago). Costa Rica has also shown that they're ********ing terrible, as evidenced by them getting the gallo pinto beaten out of them by Spain a week ago. The overwhelmingly likely results tomorrow are that Spain and Germany go through, but I believe there's a higher chance of Costa Rica getting a result and going through than Japan getting a result and going through.
     
  5. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They’re kinda the ultimate underachievers, considering how huge the sport is there.
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    U.S. soccer is gradually losing its American-ness, which of course is a good thing, but a vestige is how the team acts when holding a lead. Its instinct is to boot and clear, whereas (say) Argentina's and Spain's instinct is to possess and keep the ball from the opposition. In my son's words, "When we're trying to hold a lead we play like we have ODP coaches."
     
  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    They won’t need much energy in the tank if they plan to play the way that they played today. That was a disgraceful effort!

    (other than their goalkeeper, of course. He’s the only one from Poland who deserved to advance.)
     
  8. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They love their storylines, and to increase tension in any way possible.

    Meanwhile the American players are like “yeah, um, we play against these guys in our clubs, but okay.” Saw an interview with Kane after that game where he was basically like “yeah, they’re a strong team, we gave them respect right from the start.” But the media’s gotta stick with the drama they know.
     
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  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Class act here

     
  10. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    agree, that was borderline embarrassing
    Only the pk save by Szczesny gave us anything to be happy about
     
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  11. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Thank you for your many words. You win the internet.

    I'll be brief:

    I believe that Spain and Japan are most likely to advance out of that group.
     
  12. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    This isn't happening fast enough, IMO.

    On the one hand, we've all played some iteration of keepaway in training, in the park, or at recess in school, be it "rondos," "pig in the middle," "5 v 2," or the like.

    I dont understand why Berhalter can't see the value in possession as a means to kill off a game. Packing the back, punting, and praying is a loser's mindset.

    For that matter, I don't understand the Berhalter-stans that praised his "tactics" to close out the group matches.

    Perhaps one day soon, we'll have a manager that will value possession as much as (s)he should.
     
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  13. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually the French are relieved and pleased to play Poland. They were dreading Argentina and were not looking forward to Mexico either. They were worry about KSA because of their (French) coach, Herve Renard. Having said that I am happy we avoided the French as well. Give me the Aussies!
     
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  14. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    #1489 usscouse, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Slightly of topic. But it is relevant, football and Argentina. after the match I saw a Show listed in Peacock called funnily enough “Messi”
    And interesting bio of Leo as a small kid growing up with physical problems yet still showing against kids a couple of years older his obvious talent. It’s a lot of talk in Spanish or Argentine Spanish. With just about everyone who knows him or has played with or against him.
    Some special video clips as a kid and as a player and how Barca and Argentina almost missed out on him playing for them. A last minute revelation saved Argentina as he was about to play for Spain.

    Anyway it’s worth watching on Peacock.
     
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  15. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll have you know, my marauding ancestors managed to conquer your little island. ;)
     
  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    What school did you go to? Is this what happens at Christchurch Grammar??

    However, valid point on the rest.
     
  17. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Might I remind you that France completely imploded in 2010, which was the same year that Italy finished bottom of their group. England in 2014. And Germany in 2018.

    One of the things I don't get with US fans is that we tend to want Mexico to fail. I always want Mexico to succeed, unless they play us. Just like I want every CONCACAF team to win unless they play us (or if it hurts us in qualification).

    Good think I found an ITV stream.

    It would also eliminate the negative effects of officials who are either to harsh with cards or to lenient. Another option would be about fouls received, though that, too, would be the same problem.
     
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  18. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Italy could've had him via family tree but didn't bother.
     
  19. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    Mexico didn’t fail.
    In the last 7 World Cups, they lost the fourth game.
    This time they avoided that fate.
     
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  20. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    What's interesting is that both Italy and Spain have won a World Cup and a continental title since then. OTOH, Messi would be trophyless with Argentina if CONMEBOL hadn't decided to hold a Copa America every 20 minutes until he won one.

    Argentina is/are too good for this kind of drought.
     
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  21. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Part of me thinks Mexico hates US dominance because this country still doesn't want a footballing culture, aa shown by MLS' playoff system and salary caps.

    If America respected the game, I'm not sure they'd care as much.
     
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  22. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    The best mine were able to achieve was conquering the world power Abyssinia....then they all went to Cascarino's Pizzaria for takeout. :cool:
     
  23. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Liga MX plays two seasons a year and has playoffs, I seriously doubt they care about such things.
     
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  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I assumed they had a footballing culture. I had no idea!
     
  25. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Embrace diversity!
     
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