Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    This is a great post.

    Yep. In addition to Iran being more aggressive, we traded Pulisic for Aaronson. Brenden's great, but his style is more of a counter-attacking player who rides the front line, so we lost Pulisic's coming back and assisting in possession.

    We did have some good chances with him going forward, but this was another tick on control.

    They've now reporting he has a quad injury though not detailed as bad. He was definitely done.

    Yep, for all the hate possession play has gotten over this cycle, and all the dislike of MMA because of lack of creativity, it's interesting to see how people seem to value the control of the midfield they give when not fatigued. MMA's control is a vital part of our defense and ability to get the ball into attacking positions and when two of them tire or leave the game, it collapses.

    I know people think that Reyna or LDLT would slot right in but it's just as much about defensive play than possession (or more) ... so I am not nearly as certain. Well, I'm pretty certain the latter won't.

    We had already lost the first half level of control at this point. And it wasn't all Kellyn Acosta.

    Wright was terrible. He was in for size and maybe counterattacking, I am sure, but it does feel like someone like Reyna or Ferreira would have contributed more, if in an entirely different way. Wright held up the ball and had a big defensive header. Reyna or Ferreira would have possessed better, pressed Iran's passers better and might have scored.

    There was a moment early where Taremi had him one on one and chose to pass. I'm glad he didn't get tested there. That said, I think the same is true of Ream, Zimmerman and CCV. The former two have won some one on ones, but our best shot is preventing them.

    I'll be interested to see if he's played his way out. He's a good defender and has more physical size and strength, but his offense has been abysmal. I think Scally is a tough call in those situations -- he's super young, he hasn't been super great for the US, and while he's a willing defender ... I struggle to trust him in a penalty situation.

    I don't think our players have very good vision / have to focus on the dribble visually. I think they miss a LOT of passes because of that. Even Pulisic. I don't know if it is skill, tactical sense or composure, but we had at least three golden opportunities where we simply didn't make the right and obvious choice.
     
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  2. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Let me know if you want to reclaim your original @Colin Eager
     
  4. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s great news.
     
  5. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, it's not like Germany played defensively in 1990 and won the WC. Or Greece in Euro 2004. Can't happen.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #1006 gogorath, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    It's one of those patterns of play.

    It's remarkably similar to the goal against Honduras in the Nations League with different players. Pull the defense away from the right side of the box with movement of the attackers, slip in a player behind (Wes/Dest), switch over the top and hit an attacker running in outside the box (Pefok, Pulisic).

    We use a lot of those same principle for Pepi's header goal against Honduras as well, though without the dramatic switch and one time movement. Arriola streaks inside, pulling the left back away from the right, Dest fills, receives a ball over the top, wide open for the cross.

    We have a decent tactical plan for these things. We, at times, get lazy with our off ball movement (which is why the Weahs, Pulisics, Arriolas get a lot of time), but the reality is that to beat an effective defense, you need to execute. There's a lot of precision -- or luck -- on these goals.

    The tactics are what make it so Dest is basically unmarked (and to certain extent Wes is unpressured), but Wes stills needs to hit a long ball to within a foot or so of a space, Dest needs to perfect one time it into the box, and Pulisic needs to time his run. His finish is also pretty damn sweet for a guy running into the keeper.

    These tactics aren't genius or anything. I'm not trying to say that. But when people chalk up our offensive struggles to our tactical plan, I balk a bit. Because we do try a lot of pretty smart things.

    It's just that a) execution at this level is really hard and b) we're just not skilled at the level people think we are on some of this.

    I actually think our offense in possession has been decent this World Cup. It's our transition play that has been pretty abysmal and we're giving up 25-40% of the offense by sucking at set pieces.
     
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  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    And compliment them. Guys like Pulisic and Weah would be so much more effective if we just had a solid 9.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Personally, with technology, I'd just redefine for the higher levels to something very specific to the tech. Then I'd consider giving some leeway to the offense to increase some scoring. As long as the players can understand and react to it, we are good.

    But the speed this tech is working at is great.
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
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  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    read what i wrote again- i specifically said pro-greggers can, and very regularly do, recognize things that can be improved, but us troublemakers arent afforded that luxury. its exaggerated all to hell or its reduced to "hating" (or dismissed as a "certainty they know better than the coach", like you just did). i also mentioned a tacit requirement to praise gregg before you get to share any views whatsoever (bolded).

    theres balance where balance is warranted, ie zim sub good/moore sub bad. everything isnt some preplanned attack on gregg as a dude. gah, i dont know if anything is.

    you want people to go out of their way to be nice to him and sorry, thats just not a requirement for talking about/analyzing a match. im more than happy to just talk about whats going on in the game, if anything im regularly annoyed everything has to be framed in relation to the manager.
     
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  11. Dervos

    Dervos Member+

    Mar 13, 2002
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I'd be careful with increasing the bloodflow!

    Also, you accidentally typed "clock".
     
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  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think he's pretty good in the air. Scally may be, too, I haven't seen enough.

    Scally may be the better option. After two struggles, we may well see him or Yedlin. But I also think people are pushing pretty hard for a 19 year old who hasn't shone for the US in a high stress situation. There's risks there, too.

    I'm not saying it was the right call; I just think there's a reason for the decision making, even if faulty.
     
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  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do wonder how Dike would look at the end of some these games when things get a bit frantic. I know he was hurt and he wasn't an option, but I think he'd be a good fit for end of game situations when we are pushing for a goal. Though I don't think he's the full time answer at the 9.

    I liked what we saw from Sargent against Iran and post-World Cup I hope Pepi continues to develop and Vazquez gets a good long look.
     
  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's also very possible he's repping solely at left back given the lack of options there.
     
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  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Saw that too and can't remember which guy said it in the presser. Was it Ream?
     
  16. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When they showed the replay right after Weah's goal (it's a goal in my book, Timmy!), I thought, damn, where's the offside??

    Like others have stated, the goal may well have been allowed just a few years ago.

    This interpretation violates the spirit of the law as I always understood it — "Even Is Onside."
     
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  17. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Berhalter's subs are certainly questionable - he is human after all.

    I think my overall point on Berhalter is that coaching a team like this has a 1000 different points, he's getting a large majority of it right. You look at other nations, who are absolutely loaded with talent, fail to even qualify, or go out in group stages...chemistry and getting a team to play for each other is often bigger than the talent on hand. Chemistry is why nations like France and England flamed out in the group stage in prior Cups. Berhalter has an extremely young roster that's performing at a high level and playing for each other. And because his tactical plan and XI are at a bare minimum good enough, it's hard to view him as anything but a success, while acknowledging a ton of room for improvement in how he built this roster and his sub selection.

    So many managers wouldn't have been successful melding such diverse group of individuals, all of whom are fairly young and in different spots of their career, into a cohesive team.

    Perfect example the above video of Robinson crying post game - Jedi is a standout Prem fullback. The person soothing him? A lifetime MLSer who doesn't start. Like? That's incredible.

    Last example, when Berhalter disciplined Wes during qualifying...Wes' Dad literally thanked Berhalter for how he handled it. I don't know why, but these qualities are really undervalued by fans in all sports, IMO of course.
     
  18. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Yea I think it was Ream
     
  19. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scoring goals is also hard, apparently.

    :p
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Last thing I will say about this goal -- it's a great example of breaking down an organized defense. Iran wasn't really bunkering, but they were defensive.

    We talk about breaking down bunkers with creative execution -- and you need great execution but it doesn't have to be brilliant play. Team organized moves like this are the ideal.

    We focus a LOT on what people do on the ball, but Weah's movement opens up space for Dest. He's a literal decoy, but he runs all day. If he doesn't move, hangs out on the right side, then there's a defender there to knock away that pass from Wes (or he never makes it).

    Likewise, Christian's movement to goal comes from a long way away -- that's part of what makes it work. His defender is far from goal and chasing him. To the defense, he kind of comes out of nowhere.

    The movement is vitally important. We get caught up a lot with what people do with the ball, but it's pointless if you don't get the defense out of position.
     
  21. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow! That's the nicest thing anyone ever said about me here.


    ...I think!

    Thanks, much appreciated.

     
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  22. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Watching Argentina-Poland. At least 4 subs before the 60 min mark. And John Strong noting how important it is for Poland to be able to possess the ball in the face of the big 2d ARG onslaught. These are not controversial ideas.
     
  23. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not convinced we can possess the ball against decent WC opposition after making 3-4 subs. Our bench players who are good at possession are not good enough defensively to make it a worthwhile trade off IMO.
     
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  24. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All hands on deck.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019




    None of this is to say that this is necessarily the absolute best decision, but it's simply a counterpoint.
     
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