Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Berhalter mentioned Moore in conjunction with Zimmerman in terms of adding height to the backline given how Iran was likely to and did pump balls in. I wonder how much that played a role.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I actually initially questioned it still because I think finding the frame where the ball leaves the foot is so hard ... but they are actually using a ball that measures pressure on the ball to determine a consistent point of exit, which is kind of cool. If it is not systematically biased to be late.
     
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  3. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I am 64 years old and this is the first time I have seen a sentence that begins this way.
     
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  4. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Scally is taller and Moore isn't notably good in the air.
     
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  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    My grandmother and grandfather were interned in the Russian camp on Samar with St. John, and my mom grew up in the Richmond. Yeah, probably.
     
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  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yes, but of course we wouldn't be told all the details. Managers keep a lot to themselves during a WC.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Bingo.
     
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  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #983 gomichigan24, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    Carlos Queiroz is not exactly a reliable source however. And I was very disappointed in the way he conducted himself at times. Like when he chased down the BBC Persian reporter to ask her why she wasn't asking England about their conduct in Afghanistan.

    I think it's telling that he when he arrived at the press conference prior to the the Iran-US game, that he received a standing ovation from the Iranian state-affiliated media that was there. That's the last group of people I'd want any plaudits or appreciation from. See for instance



    Unlike his players Carlos Queiroz has nothing to fear from the Iranian regime. He's not Iranian, he doesn't have family back there to worry about, and there's nothing to stop him from speaking out and saying the right thing. And yet he did not do so.

    More broadly, as someone who is very well informed as to what is going on in Iran, I take issue with how you've portrayed the opposition or the idea that these things are "fantastical lies." This is a regime that's killing and murdering its own people in the streets and continues to do so. See for instance



    I don't agree with every opposition figure and their opinions, but the conduct of this regime and what's actually happening in Iran right now is right there for everyone to see.
     
  9. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Wait, this was you?

    i want him gone as much right now as i ever have. to see what we can do/be in the first half to what we did/are in the second is shocking. the early 90s with college kids was more fun to watch than what gregg makes us.

    Yeah, I can see how you'd be hurt that someone would lump you in with irrational anti-Berhalter morons
     
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  10. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    Safe to say the ignore button has been pushed a few times since the end of the Iran game.
     
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  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Indeed. The ends justify the means at a competition like the World Cup. Survive and advance.

    DO I think Berhalter went too defensive too soon? Yes.
    At this point we had to expect 9 minutes of stoppage time.
    But hell, it worked.

    By the way, Zimmerman is a frickin' monster. That guy coming on as a late game defensive beast was a great call.

    Can we also give credit to Berhalter for having the balls to start CCV at centerback in this game? Didn't play a minute of qualifying. Didn't play in the 2021 Gold Cup or 2021 Nations League. He started him in both games of the recent Nations League games, so he must have been thinking that CCV was an in line to play at this event.
     
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  12. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Careful, you'll get banned for talking like that around here! :)
     
  13. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My personal opinion is I find it ridiculous how emotionally charged full grown adults get at difference of opinion on a sports team they collectively follow.

    It's supposed to be a hobby. Look at everything going on in the world and we have adults losing their minds cause they disagree on a coach's sub patterns.

    Replaced the sports team with brand of lawnmower, Star Wars movies or Pepsi vs Coke and you quickly see how ridiculous the arguments are.
     
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's interesting how each regime manipulates the news. The news become history, so each country has a different version of what happened.

    Right now there is a story making the rounds that some Iranian fan got shot by police for celebrating the USA win. There are other stories reporting he was not with his girlfriend in the car when it happened, he was in the middle of a violent demonstration (he even wrote he was going out to demonstrate a couple of hours before). Others report he was in the car, but blasting his horn and screaming and refused to step down to get tested for alcohol, and got confrontational with the cops who shot him because they didn't know whether he was armed.

    Basically, he could have been shot dead over something that also gets you shot dead in the USA. Or maybe it was over his celebration. Or maybe he was indeed a drunk violent protester.

    When Escobar got shot in Colombia the English-language media immediately made it over the defeat of Colombia in the World Cup. The South American media made it over a possible cartel connection, they had lost millions in a bet, etc. In the end, it was just a fight in a bar: Escobar got lippy when some drunks were teasing him, it escalated, he got shot.

    Or take the shooting of Tamir Rice, the 12 year old black kid, in the USA. In the US media, it was reported that he had a replica air gun and he had removed the orange tag, so it looked like a real gun. Internationally, it was reported he was just playing in the park with a toy gun. So the image they got abroad is that in the USA even Black children get shot with impunity by the cops, when playing in a park. In the USA, the details given are different, with him pointing the gun (that looks real) to random passers-by before the event.

    Everything in the news has many versions, and the many versions vary according to how sympathetic the people reporting are to those playing the roles of aggressors or victims in the event.
     
  15. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I put that down to youthful inexperience/nerves more than anything else.
     
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  16. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I'd love to ask some of these people what they thought of Denmark v Australia earlier today...
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #992 gogorath, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    What are you talking about?

    There are a ton of people complimenting Berhalter's tactics all tournament, including a lot of international press and people who have no stake in a USA discussion.

    Jeff Reuter, who's American but no fan of USSF, gave Berhalter a C-, B+ and B for the three games. Ahmed Walid, who covers from a global perspective, wrote a good article on left side rotations. It's noted our goal came from a practiced play. There are several articles on our defensive organization and effectiveness. There were a ton of compliments for the tactical plan against England -- it was universal.

    If you follow anyone who actually details tactics, Berhalter's had a good World Cup. There's been questions on subs and adjustments -- that's more split. But the actual primary gameplans have been universally praised.

    As for scoreline, winning the game versus Iran doesn't mean that bunkering was the optimal choice. It doesn't mean that in every situation, it's a good choice. It does mean that it was a choice that did work, and I think even critics should acknowledge it.

    Every fan hates bunkering. It's stressful, it feels off, etc. But there's a reason a LOT of coaches do it, and I think it is kind of ridiculous not to acknowledge that there are good reasons for it even if you disagree. Does it ever occur to you that when basically 100% of coaches not coaching a team with a dominant level of talent chooses to do this at some point in the game ... that it may not be a clearly dumb decision?

    You make decisions for the exact situation you are in, and you need to evaluate the decision in that context. It's fine to worry about reapplying the decision in the future, but we were playing Iran, with our players exactly so tired, in exactly this moment.

    Lastly, critics need to make up their mind on pragmatism. For three years, we heard criticism that Berhalter was too worried about playing pretty instead of winning. He chose to abandon his preferred style of play to pragmatically win ... and now he gets criticized because it is "cowardly." Pick one: either style matters or winning matters.
     
  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i really couldnt have asked for a better example.
     
  19. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a regular over at BigBoneContusion, then?
     
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  20. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus I can't imagine this thread if we had failed to advance.

    I'm gonna bow out of this thread and look ahead to the Dutch matchup.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Of course.

    Berhalter went with defensive subs. Fans never like that ... unless they coach doesn't go with it, and then give up a goal.

    What I think is weird is the lack of self-awareness to think this is some decision unique to Berhalter. As if the idea to bunker in the last 10-20 minutes of a game is something uncommon. And as if putting in two 19 year olds would suddenly change the possession structure of the game because they play in the Bundesliga.
     
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  22. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well there's that.

    No spinning it, he had no business in there and no real business being in the 23.
     
  23. imasyko

    imasyko Member+

    May 16, 2002
    Spring City, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a former ref, I can tell you that that damn law gets revised almost every year. VAR is responsible for the 'toenail' offside calls these days
     
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  24. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC

    Such a bizarre take - who are all these Berhalter apologists who can’t see his flaws or mistakes? I’m sure there have been some “scoreboard” posts in the wake of the result last game. Not sure that’s shocking - at the end of the day, this is a fan forum - constantly harping on the coach even after a win can be an unwelcome addition to the celebration punch bowl. To the victor go the spoils.

    My issue with many of the serial coach complainers is the certainty that they know better than the coach, the echo chamber nature of like minded haters venting about him ad nauseum even after an impressive England strategy, and in some cases the divorce from reality on potential alternate options he should make.

    This isn’t everyone - many serial critics here give him credit for job done or have acknowledged some balance to their critiques. But if you think the apologists (again, I’ve not seen a lot of those) don’t come to the debate table with open minds, I’m not sure how you can claim the critics are any better.

    For me, my interest is in how the constant negativity impacts this forum.
     
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  25. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the feed is provided to the networks by FIFA (right?) and they seem to prefer "color" to actually covering the action on the field sometimes. I get that, but I'd trade a few shots of pretty women in the stands for some more complete replays.
     
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