Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    This keeps getting lost, but we didn’t “let” Iran on the front foot in the 2nd half. We attacked them until our legs stopped, and Iran started talking the initiative. Wes was done, Jedi was losing his touch, Dest and Yunus were fading. Those 4 were our water carriers. We didn’t have the legs to carry forward.

    At that Berhalter had no choice but to cede possession and try to make it as hard as possible for Iran to score. Trying to add more attack from average players (other than Reyna and perhaps Scally, who aren’t 4 players) would have been a terrible decision.

    TWO teams. Give credit to Iran for having enough talent to keep possession and swing it and retain the ball under pressure. They were quite good at that once our players started to tire.

    So bottom line, Gregg had to pick the path that had the highest % of success, and then took it. Good on him. I might disagree with the specific player choices, but certainly not the strategy
     
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  2. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Well said. Not sure why we still view ourselves through that older lens. Maybe it’s the ridiculously awful way ESPN’s mainstream (non soccer specific) reporters speak so ineptly and naively about the game. Even still. Watching Kornheiser and Wilbon try to celebrate the win was cringy.
     
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  3. NorcalHockeyhooligan

    Feb 25, 2012
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Put me in that group who thought same as bolded above. Props to Berhalter for getting the US out of the group. I can applaud Berhalter for that, while at the same time criticizing him for A) substandard in-game adjustments; B) subs (timing, and chosen personnel).
    So weird how 2022 has mirrored 2010 in some ways:
    • undefeated in group play
    • drew both European teams in the group
    • won the final game (and it was against another Muslim nation)

    Hopefully, the R16 result will differ! Go go USA!
     
  4. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    The lions share of ex player commentators disagree with the bolded statement. It is nevertheless a fair point IF one accepts that these water carriers could not be subbed out for other water carriers. But I don’t accept that premise.
     
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  5. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Ok, I've had hernias and they run in my family. It's when a piece of tissue behind the muscles seeps through; there are inguinal, umbilical and hiatal forms. With a groin hernia a piece of tissue can slip though and might cause testicular pain. It's usually just one of those things and it isn't clear if an injury draws attention to it or has some role in it. You've seen umbilical ones; the belly button pops out. I had one of these for years; the danger is incarceration, which I had. Fortunately mine was just fat, so no blood supply to be cut off. if he'd had a hernia he would def be out for the count for a number of weeks. Glad it wasn't.
     
  6. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    I don't even mind a me-first attitude, because that can be used productively. Assuming Gio doesn't start against the Netherlands, and assuming we fall behind, Gregg can turn to Gio and say "All right, asshole, get in there and save the day. Prove me wrong."
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think we should always celebrate getting out of the group. Life is supposed to be fun. If you can't enjoy your team winning a World Cup game and getting out of the group, then I feel bad for you.Its not as easy as people make it out to be. Germany didn't make it out of the group in 2018 and is danger of missing out again.

    People behave like Wales and Iran are Andorra and Vietnam. Hello? They're the 19th and 20th ranked teams in the World. We're 16th. And we're 16th after winning both the Gold Cup and Nations League. We ARE in the same band as those teams. Those games were always going to be close. Did people not notice that Iran beat Uruguay earlier this year?

    We're not one of the top 8 nations in the World. France, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, etc. etc. aren't going anywhere. So if folks can only be happy if we make it past the Round of 16 in the World Cup, then its going to be a sad life for them.

    If you can't enjoy wins at the World Cup, and stop with the endless negativity............................than I don't know if you're actually a USMNT fan. You're a fan of a fictional team that you've made up in your head.

    Watch some of the post game video from the locker-room. See what that win meant to those players. Some of them were literally in tears sitting in front of their lockers.
     
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  8. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    exactly man! thank you! i have followed since the 90s and I think a lot of the people that dont see it like we do...simply werent watching as long as we have been!
     
  9. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was fine with tactical reasoning from Gregg. Despite whatever we were going to do, Iran were going to throw numbers forward. Iran didn't all of a sudden decide to attack because we subbed Acosta on instead of LDLT/Reyna (which IMO would have been a bad move. I don't think those two would understand the MMA dynamic and slot in as much as Acosta does).

    Preventing a goal was more important than scoring a goal, so he focused more on defensive subs than attacking subs. The only issue I have with that is that the particular subs later on (Wright, Moore) were clearly the wrong choice. Why not sub on Morris or Fereirra, someone who will hustle their ass off, and Yedlin instead of Moore, who has played in these high pressure situations?
     
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  10. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Yeah, but as a coach is that how you would bring a hyper talented 19 year old into the tournament? There is now more pressure on him because of the weird omissions from the lineup. We have all been praising these young players for how they have “grown into” the tournament. Gio hasn’t had that opportunity.
     
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  11. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I loved Eduardo Galeano's quote in Soccer and Sun and Shadow; an ad for the 94 WC said watch the big fish eat the little fish....he writes that sometimes, the little fish ate the big fish, bones and all....
     
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  12. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Yes it is, IDIOT
     
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  13. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    The Jamie Tartt method
     
  14. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    There is zero chance of making the final playing like that. That’s the point. Playing hoofball against Iran might work. Against a Spain, Brazil or an Argentina we would have a 5-0 pasting playing bunker all like that.
     
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  15. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Yes, and released it.
     
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  16. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We wouldn't play this "hoofball" if we weren't winning.

    We've shown in neutral game script that we can hang with the big boys and even dictate play. And yes, England is a big boy.
     
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  17. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    You really think the game plan against Iran was "hoofball"?
     
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  18. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Well, as they say, life imitates Tartt.
     
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  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    He's also barely played in calendar year 2022 for club and country.

    Brenden Aaronson has been in much better form. Much better. Prior to the event, Haji Wright was too. He's not played so well, though.

    Its not actually a "weird omission" from the lineup.

    Are people starting Reyna over Weah, Pulisic, McKennie, or Musah? If the answer is no, then there isn't a spot in the starting XI for him. And if we were going to start a player in a false 9 kind of role, it would be Ferreira. Not Reyna.

    What would the point have been in bringing on Reyna in that 2nd half? That 2nd half suited Aaronson's style and not Reyna's. Frankly, I think Berhalter would again have brought on Morris if he wanted a sub for Weah. That game in the 2nd half would also have suited Morris.

    We had a whole long discussion earlier in the year about how Reyna didn't seem to "fit" with the other pieces in the USMNT when everybody is healthy. That's sorta what's happened here. I don't exactly know what people expected.

    This is a squad of 26 players. Guys are going to be left out. Nobody seems to be talking about all of the other guys that haven't played. Where's the outrage about Luca de la Torre or Scally not playing?
     
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  20. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Or that we’ve played any hoof ball in this tournament.

    Like how did the England match, where we ended the game playing the better soccer, stop existing?
     
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  21. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    True, in the sense that no one is negotiating with you
    A+ troll, would read again
     
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  22. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I would say it this way. Getting out of the group should be the expectation but it also should not be taken for granted. Even top European nations have found difficulties in recent world cups getting out of the group and its not all because the groups were tough... heck Italy has now failed to make 2 world cups and our opponents Saturday also waited 8 years like we did to return.

    The other point I'd make is that while Berhalter ball can be frustrating, but also don't take for granted him building a tight unit as no big deal. I've seen plenty of teams have disastrous world cups due to discontent in the locker room... including Belgium right now
     
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  23. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Unlike Brazil at home, we never lose 5-0 (in the 29th minute).
    I admit I thought Reyna was the perfect guy to unlock the bunker, but after we scored I cared less. He probably would have scored in that play that Sargent and Weah flubbed.

    I don’t care about pressure though - if he’s going to be as good as we think he is, I’m not going to worry about his feelings. He’ll have to figure it out.
     
  24. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This seems relevant
     
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  25. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    in the quarterfinals, which Brazil nearly always makes. Call me when the Us has won five cups
     

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