News: Time to give Gregg Berhalter his due

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by EL MONO MARIO, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two continental cups, a return to the World Cup, a World Cup win, 2 draws, 2 clean sheets and one of the most visibly appealing teams to watch in the tournament, Gregg Berhalter deserves his due.

    It hasn’t always been pretty, but Gregg Berhalter can hang his hat with one of the most, if not the most, impressive World Cup by the United States in the modern era solely on the team’s play and potential.

    https://bolavip.com/en/qatar2022/US...herlands-at-FIFA-World-Cup-20221129-0034.html
     
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  2. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I would not call a win and 2 draws in this group anything particularly special. They barely got out of the group. Now if he beats Netherlands then yeah maybe we can say he's on to something.
     
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  3. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    First, I think the team plays extremely ineffectively very very often and is lucky to get results.

    But even I have to admit that Berhalter gets lucky results far too often to be lucky.

    Second, I'm old enough to know that "barely got out of the group" is the only way the US *ever* gets out of its group.

    2014: Advanced on goal differential over Portugal because Germany beat them down in game one, and then eased up on the US in game 3

    2010: Advanced because of a Robert Green howler to give the U.S. a lucky draw with England and then needed 90th minute heroics against *Algeria* to finish a point ahead of Slovenia. 5pts, +1 GD.

    2006: Got pasted, but got a single point from a draw with Italy and finished last with a -4GD

    2002: Snuck into the R16 because an already qualified South Korea decided to take it to Portugal and got a win, while the U.S. was busy being pasted by Poland.

    1998: Less said the better. (0 points, -4 GD)

    1994: as hosts, Advanced as one of the best 3rd placed teams in a 24 team tournament, thanks to a Colombian own goal

    2022: Finished two points clear of second, thanks to defending a lead for the entire second half. 5 pts and a +1 GD is tied with 2010 for the best performance in the group stage ever (with 2010)


    Berhalter's team are capable of playing some excellent soccer against serious competitors. The long stretches of going toe to toe with England is some of the best soccer the U.S. has ever produced.

    Then again, the second halves against Wales and Iran were absolutely execrable. No one could have complained had Iran scored on one of its excellent chances and we'd gone home.

    I don't like Berhalter's approach at all, but damn if he doesn't bring it home. I doubt I'll ever like the guy. I actually liked Bob Bradley, and Bruce Arena, and even Dave Sarachan. For a while I gave Klinsmann the benefit of the doubt. Even Bora had his charms.

    But Berhalter? I dunno.
     
  4. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I could not disagree with you more. I would take 5 points all day any day in a World Cup group stage. That's literally tied for the best we've ever done in a World Cup group stage (along with 2010, when we won our group on 5 points).

    Were you expecting us to coast through? Even if we had beat Wales, we would have been sitting on 4 points and needed a tie to get through. And if we had played "to form" and beat Wales and lost to England, we still would have needed a result against Iran.
     
  5. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I think that was more a matter of England playing not to lose. They barely attacked.

    In 3 matches we had 2 goals for and 1 against. I mean, nothing to write home about.
    We were expected to get 2nd and we did, just barely. Easily could have drew Iran today.
     
  6. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I would expect us to beat Wales, at least by one goal.
    And at least score one goal vs England. (If you can't beat Harry Maguire that's pretty bad.)
    And 2 goals vs Iran.

    Let's face it, it wasn't exactly the hardest group. The Spain group looks hard.
    In fact if I look at all the groups, I'd say ours is the easiest, do you agree?
     
  7. DeweyEvans

    DeweyEvans Member

    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Group F seems pretty weak to me.
     
  8. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I would have expected Belgium and Croatia to advance but Belgium is not performing well.
     
  9. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ENG had day-off and let us earn a point. WAL and IRN are two shitty 3rd tier teams, at most marginally better than Concacaf scraps we had to play in WCQ. Let's wait to see how we handle NED this Sat.
     
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  10. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
    Gregg haters really out in force. If he beats Netherlands he has a strong case for the most successful US manager ever.

    And LOL at the people who are saying our group is weak. Yup, seeding straight by ranking has reduced the chances of a true group of death, but depending on which metric you choose, we are either in the hardest group or in one of the three hardest groups.

    I'm not a Greg stan, have often been very frustrated by his choices and I really, really hope USSF doesn't extend him, but he has gotten results.
     
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  11. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #11 TrueCrew, Nov 30, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
    5 points is the second best group point total in US history. Behind 1930 (2 wins in 2 games) and tied with 2010.

    One goal conceded is the best since 1930 (none in 2 games). We did not trail at any point for the first time since 1930.

    +1 GD is joint second (with 2010) behind 1930 (+6).

    And in 2010 we needed an England GK blunder for a draw. This year we bossed them. This year there were nervy moments with leads but in 2010 we fell behind Slovenia 0-2 and needed Landon's last gasp winner to beat Algeria & advance. I think by any rational evaluation, 2022 has been a better performance.

    The only other year in consideration would be 2014. Advancement from a Germany, Portugal, Ghana group. We blew leads vs Ghana & Portugal, but still got the win vs Ghana on Brooks' header, but were mostly outplayed after Dempsey's 1st minute goal. Portugal was spectacular, but we barfed up the win in stoppage time. We had a huge GD lead on Portugal (0-4 losers to Germany) and a confortable 0-1 loss to Germany got us through. The group that year was harder. Our performance this year vs the heavyweight was better (bossed England in a draw, bossed by Germany in 1-0 loss). And we never faced as difficult an environment as the Iran game that year.

    In 2002 we needed a Friedel PK save to draw South Korea and backed in with a 1-3 loss to Poland and South Korea beating Portugal.

    In 1994 we finished 3rd in the group but advanced in a 24 team WC where only 8 went out after group.

    In 1950, 1990, 1998, and 2006 we went out at group. 1934 was straight KO, and we got destroyed the first match.

    This is our 11th WC, and in terms of group stage performance (10 tourneys), this one is without a doubt on the medal stand. Gold is 1930. Silver 2022. Bronze 2010 or 2014. Honorable mention 1994/1950.

    As for tournament performance,

    Gold: 1930, Silver 2002, Bronze 2010. Honorable mention 1994/2014.

    Honestly, it is like some people expect us to be Brazil, France, or Germany.

    If Argentina do not manage to win Group C today, our 4 team pod could be absent a perceived heavyweight (much like 2010 with Ghana + Uruguay). The Dutch are good and deep, make no mistake. As are Denmark. As are Poland. But I am not scared of those teams like I am France, Brazil, Spain, England, Argentina, or even Germany/Portugal/Croatia.
     
  12. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Total props for his recruiting dual nats and building a cohesive team that likes to be around each other. And total props for getting his starting 11 correct in the 3rd game. Trending up but his 23 is still leaving him with less than optimal substitution options.

    And he should get props for getting out of the group. That's no given.
     
  13. wasdykec

    wasdykec Member

    May 6, 2002
    Jax, Florida
    So two teams that qualified for the world cup, one out of Europe and one out of Asia are somehow only marginally better than a concacaf team that didn't make it? Maybe ENG had a day off because we played GREAT and Berhalter had a game plan to keep them in check.

    I don't think Berhalter is the guy to win the cup with the US, but some of the exercises people come up with to crap on him still are ridiculous. Won the nations league, gold cup, in the round of 16 at the WC, but he's just lucky. Whatever. USA fans can be so frustrating sometimes (most of.the time).

    I started following soccer in 1996 (I was 16) and this is by far the best I have ever seen us play. Maybe we're just spoiled now.
     
  14. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more, only the 3rd time we won the final group stage game.

    Wins: 1930, 2010 (Landon's winner vs Algeria), 2022.

    Losses: 1950, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2014.

    No group stage: 1934 (KO format, lost opener).
     
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  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There is definitely a generational aspect to this.

    I'm an older guy too. At the first USMNT match I attended in the late 80s, we lost to Bermuda.

    As you know, it was very difficult for us to watch any games from any European league. Even USMNT games were on tape delay late at night.

    Now these younger fans see soccer from all over the world. The want us to be France or Spain. Their goal is for us to be France. They believe that's achievable. Anything other than that is a disappointment to them.

    Us older folks watch last night and think it's a miracle. An amazing achievement.

    Gregg Berhalter has taken a squad that didn't even qualify for the World Cup in 2018, and almost completely turned over the squad to young players. Then he won both the Gold Cup and the Nations League. Now he's advanced to the knockout rounds of the World Cup. And yet still people find ways to bash him. Why? I don't know, but at this point its kinda like yelling at clouds. At some point nobody is actually listening to your negativity any more. They're too busy having fun.
     
  16. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Guys have delusional ideas about the World Cup. I'm not going to let their ridiculous expectations ruin my enjoyment of yesterday's win. We're into the round of 16 with our youngest team ever and we weren't even here 4 years ago.
    If you can't see that as a major accomplishment, then that's your loss and I feel sorry for you.
     
  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amen. Preach brother (sister?), preach.

    I have been watching for longer (I can remember watching Soccer Made In Germany with my older brother and Pele in the NASL), and this is the best I have seen in Group.

    1930 was before my time and the 2002 team was fantastic in the KO stages.
     
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  18. shooter6065

    shooter6065 Member

    Nov 16, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Amen brother!
     
  19. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    San Diego
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't complain. This team has been a technical match or superior to every opponent it's faced.

    I've never seen that in a World Cup. Even in 2002 (IMHO our best WC), we had a real stinker against Poland.

    Maybe it's more this generation of players than Berhalter's coaching...but even if that's true, it suggests bog standard competent coaching at the very least.

    I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'll tip my cap to him. He's getting the job done.
     
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  20. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    It's not everything I want, but he's done well.
     
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  21. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    San Diego
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I'd expect Germany to beat Japan & Argentina not to lose a group stage game.

    You have to expect the unexpected in the WC. Statistically, the sample size is so small in each group stage that you have to be good enough to ride out anomalies.

    And we did.
     
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  22. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    San Diego
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't really see any evidence that they weren't trying to attack. What I saw was that our possession in the back third was actually phenomenal & we won most of the 50-50 balls.
     
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  23. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's the best group stage I've ever seen this team play. Our group was a tough one by Elo or FIFA ranking yet we were arguably the better team in all three games. The only thing we missed was being the best team of the group overall. England played better against Iran and Wales.
     
  24. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait for Saturday, you'll see the difference.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, that was awfully nice of them!
     
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