2022-23 Roster Movement Thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Oct 11, 2022.

  1. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yup, completely agree.
    But not with this. Maybe I'm just a robot, but the past is in the past. Swallow the hubris and make an evaluation: is he worth keeping on for $X? If he's willing to stay for $X and his value is commensurate with $X, sign him.

    I get what you are saying, but you can't really compare salaries like that. There are always going to be outlier players across the league that are incredible values for their position and contribution. That doesn't mean it's realistic for another team to sign a Fall-caliber player for $100k.

    Maybe some of this is semantics, because the way I look at it is...
    The highest number I'd be willing to throw Fontas is probably in the $300k range. A third-string CB that has system and league experience for $300k, all while freeing up $800k to bring in someone better? Sure, I'd take that deal. Would Fontas take that deal? Likely not. Okay, great, situation resolved.
     
  2. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, all very true, I'm just saying I wish we had a better way to keep a career player on so he could retire with KC. As a fan, it sucks to see a guy play here for 13+ years and then get shipped to Benchwarmer FC for a single season for an extra $50k. And maybe that's just something I need to accept, but seeing Besler leave for a single season and retire just felt like we lost out on saying a proper goodbye to our captain, ya know?
     
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  3. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I agree. The problem comes when the player reaches the end (at the top of his powers, at least) of his career and keeps playing. I mean, it isn't unreasonable to think a RB would retire before 36. Same for an 8.
    I find the Melia issue just as worrying, in a different sense. The fall off in 2022 was saddening. I can't see him bouncing back to what he once was, and what he once was was kind of brilliant. I am hoping he's a good, experienced hand on the bench who helps the two guys above him grow. But that makes me a little sad, OTOH, f-me. He wants to play, he should play.
     
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  4. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel like by the end Zusi (and Espinoza for that matter) had better seasons and seemed more deserving of a new contract than Melia in my opinion.
     
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  5. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I agree. I just think their limitations were on view. Roger can't be asked for more than 50 good minutes. Zusi should rest more than he plays. Both have good replacements on the roster, Walter for Roger and PIerre for Zusi. I guess i'm better with Zusi as an emergency fill in, because while he showed he wears down over time, he was able to give us 90 minutes for a couple games in a row. Roger really cannot do that, which means his utility is as a late game sub, a role for which he's not really perfect, or a starter who leaves at halftime, which isn't really a role
     
  6. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll have to see what Walter looks like with Radoja behind him. One of the big things I remember from KC's late season run is that when Espinoza came out, the midfield lost most of its bite and opposing teams had a lot more time and utilized the midfield a lot more without him in there.
     
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  7. drhoades00

    drhoades00 Member

    Aug 13, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    True story. It will be hard to replace the two way presence of Roger. People know him as a bulldog in the midfield which he is, but he also tends to have a lot of key passes that unlock plays for us going forward too.
     
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  8. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I'd suggest that started about 10 minutes before he was subbed out. He lost his legs, his bite, when we asked him to go more than 45, IMO. He, also, had the advantage of working with Walter. when he was subbed out, Walter had the advantage of working with, uhm, Hernandez.
    I agree, i'm looking forward to seeing him with a 6, but he certainly has the legs and workrate
     
  9. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I really do agree with this, but I also believe that this is true even if we re-sign him. Roger was a hell of a good player. A very high level MLS mid. He can be that player for shorter periods, now, but I'm not sure a starting mid who can give you a really solid 45 is a thing.
     
  10. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  11. drhoades00

    drhoades00 Member

    Aug 13, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    mschofield repped this.
  12. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they're trying to re-sign him, along with attempting to re-sign Fontas, it's a massive mistake to run things back with the same CB pairing.
     
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  13. drhoades00

    drhoades00 Member

    Aug 13, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah I agree. That is why I am super curious. We all know Peter loves consistency...but our D was consistently leaky.
     
  14. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I mean, he was Available throughout the reentry draft's first round, and most clubs passed instead of picking him up. His trade value can't be that high within MLS.
    Maybe it is a first one passing the post situation with he and Fontas? they've both got similar, new offers and they want to see who takes it first?
    If we're going to bring one back, I really don't know which I'd prefer. I do at times like Isi, but I also appreciate his weaknesses, and same for Fontas. I wonder what number the club is tossing at them right now?
     
  15. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Fontas
     
  17. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Very happy about Zusi, and pretty fine with the other two. Hopefully the lot of them are going to cost us less this year, though I'm not optimistic we'll see huge savings. Particularly I don't know how much leverage SKC had to reduce Fontas's pay, given how much he's played in the last two seasons.

    I'm hardly the biggest proponent for blowing up the roster and signing a bunch of new guys, but I'm still overall not expecting a big window from us. I guess technically the team can add a DP, provided they have the AM flexibility? But the young DPs are full, the senior spots are pretty full, and the international slots are pretty full... Unless Vermes is hanging onto some guys as trade-bait to improve within the league (optimism talking here), I feel like we mostly know what kind of team we can expect.

    And more importantly, what quality of defense.

    If the new d-mid, who I'm very excited to watch play, isn't the answer, I don't think the four major offensive players we didn't have six months ago will be enough to tilt this team towards silverware.

    That said, I am pretty optimistic to watch Ndenbe and Pierre this year. Really should be locking down starting spots this year, given the lack of investment ahead of them, so I think this is a very significant season for both.
     
  19. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, the one that has missed the playoffs in two of the last three seasons.
     
  20. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    One of three, but sure.

    Anymore, we're a team that needs to score a lot or we're out of luck. 2021, the latter half of 2022, we see a team that can do that. If the health of our missing players and the addition of Agada and Thommy all balance out next year? I think even with a weak defense we'll make the playoffs.

    I just would like a little better than "making the playoffs" as a target for success. But that's the first step towards improving from this last year.
     
  22. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SKC missed playoffs in 2019 and 2022. 2020 MLS is back does not count as a real season in my book. So, missed playoffs 2 out of last 3 seasons.

    Otherwise, agree with your statement.

    Looks like no defensive rebuild is coming. The starting back four is going to be:

    36 yr old Zusi, some dude, slowest man in MLS, Sweat/Ndenbe
     
  23. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I expect another one or two players added, both at CB, as right now that roster listed in the article, noted that we have fontas, ford and Voloder. Even if we really, really believe in them, that's not enough. They haven't ,arked Radoja (the new 6) as an INT which I'd imagine he has to be at this point, so that means two new US or green card holding CBs, unless we're getting ready to move someone on.
     
  24. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Haha, I didn't realize we were changing the definition of "season" for this.
     
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  25. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think we saw enough out of Pierre last year to see him as the starting RB. He isn't upper MLS echelon, but has great upside. The numbers will tell us a lot and we won't know those until the MLSPA update, but I do think you're correct, you don't bring back Fontas (who is the slowest man in MLS) unless you intend to start him, or at least have him in a rotational starting role.
    As mentioned earlier, I think that an actual 6 makes the backline quite a bit better.
    That said, our CB combo is bottom tier in MLS. So much so, I really wonder if we aren't on the verge of announcings one of the big name CBs has come in.
    I like Sweat and Ndenbe as a left back combo. I actually think that's above MLS average.
    Overall, that's a sub-par back line, unless we're adding a Long or a Callens (he has to have a green card by now, right?)
     

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