World Cup Individual Advanced Stats

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Adding another batch (including Brehme, although it's mainly 1990 for him) - I'll probably stop after this although some other players will have high ratings (another couple of recent players Robben and Neymar will be averaging a bit above 8 for their 7 top Sofascore World Cup ratings I can see too for example - especially with Neymar there would be a bit of a drop off for top 10, although he only has 10 to pick from anyway, but top 7 fits them well for a very good average actually; I thought about Cafu but his average would be below all listed to some extent it looks like, so put Hierro in as he has stand-out top ratings especially from Spain's brief 1998 World Cup, although Fabio Cannavaro averages exactly 8 himself I worked out too, and with a larger sample would leap over Hierro's average):

    Kazimierz Deyna
    Haiti 1974 - 9.1
    Italy 1974 - 9.1
    Mexico 1978 - 8.3
    Sweden 1974 - 8.2
    Argentina 1974 - 7.9
    Peru 1978 - 7.9
    Yugoslavia 1974 - 7.7
    Average: 8.31

    Grzegorz Lato
    Haiti 1974 - 9.1
    Peru 1982 - 8.8
    Argentina 1974 - 8.2
    Brazil 1974 - 7.9
    Tunisia 1978 - 7.8
    Italy 1982 - 7.7
    One from Italy 1974, Yugoslavia 1974, Peru 1978, Belgium 1982 - all 7.6
    Average: 8.16

    Alain Giresse

    Northern Ireland 1982 - 8.9
    Austria 1982 - 8.3
    West Germany 1982 - 8.3
    Hungary 1986 - 7.9
    Canada 1986 - 7.7
    Kuwait 1982 - 7.5
    Brazil 1986 - 7.5
    Average: 8.01

    Jean Tigana
    Poland 1982 - 8.6
    Austria 1982 - 8.2
    Hungary 1986 - 8
    Northern Ireland 1982 - 7.7
    Italy 1986 - 7.6
    Brazil 1986 - 7.6
    West Germany 1986 - 7.5
    Average: 7.89

    Andres Iniesta
    Chile 2010 - 7.8
    Morocco 2018 - 7.8
    Australia 2014 - 7.7
    Netherlands 2010 - 7.5
    Switzerland 2010 - 7.3
    Paraguay 2010 - 7.3
    Russia 2018 - 7.3
    Average: 7.53

    Andrea Pirlo
    Ghana 2006 - 9.3
    Germany 2006 - 9.2
    France 2006 - 8.3
    USA 2006 - 8
    Czech Republic 2006 - 7.9
    Costa Rica 2014 - 7.6
    England 2014 or Uruguay 2014 - both 7.4
    Average: 8.24

    Andreas Brehme
    England 1990 - 9.1
    Mexico 1986 - 8.6
    Argentina 1990 - 8.2
    Yugoslavia 1990 - 8.1
    Netherlands 1990 - 8.1
    Czechoslovakia 1990 - 8
    United Arab Emirates 1990 - 7.8
    Average: 8.27

    Fernando Hierro
    Bulgaria 1998 - 9.2
    Nigeria 1998 - 8.8
    South Korea 2002 - 8.6
    Paraguay 2002 - 7.7
    Switzerland 1994 - 7.5
    Paraguay 1998 - 7.4
    Ireland 2002 - 7.4
    Average: 8.09
     
    comme and Buyo repped this.
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    One after thought with a high average though (for the 7 games - like some others already listed maybe the overall average drops quite a bit over all his World Cup games)....

    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
    Chile 1982 - 10
    Mexico 1978 - 8.9
    Austria 1978 - 8.7
    Algeria 1982 - 7.9
    France 1982 - 7.5
    France 1986 - 7.4
    Italy 1978 or Morocco 1986 - 7.3
    Average: 8.24
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Actually another interesting one is Miroslav Klose - variable ratings over a lot of games, but for top 7, not only above all-time top scorer rivals Ronaldo and Gerd Muller (as mentioned Pele who is not far away from top scorer might well have a higher average if his 1958 and 1962 games could be added in though, and perhaps ditto Just Fontaine I'd suspect, with his 13 goals in one tournament, except like Eusebio he's on 6 games only anyway), but nearly everybody actually with the Sofascore ratings from just those 7 highest scored games....

    Miroslav Klose
    Saudi Arabia 2002 - 9.8
    Cameroon 2002 - 8.9
    Argentina 2010 - 8.9
    Costa Rica 2006 - 8.7
    Ecuador 2006 - 8.7
    Sweden 2006 - 8.1
    Australia 2010 - 8
    Average: 8.73

    Having said that, his single tournament averages are not among the highest (around 20th in the 2002 list for players who played 3 games or more and 30th in the 2006 one, with similar averages slightly above 7.5).
     
    comme repped this.
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    The two typos I've noticed I've made are for some reason from the same game! Colin Bell re: dribbling stats, and Bobby Charlton re: one of his top 7 Sofascore ratings were playing vs West Germany in 1970 of course (not 1960 and 1974 respectively)!
     
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I suppose Rummenigge with 20-25 minutes didn't play much more vs France in 1982 than Messi vs Serbia & Montenegro in 2006.

    Well, just for info, I'll add that if Messi's game was added in he'd be on 8.69, while if Rummenigge's game was taken out he'd be on 8.21 (pretty much the same for him).
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Another couple of players it's worth adding in I think, with a high average thanks to starring in multiple World Cups (although in 1990 for example Stojkovic has a slightly higher Sofascore average than Scifo does over that single World Cup with a similar role, and in 2018 a couple of midfielders who went far in the competition, De Bruyne and Modric, are close to Overath's 1970 average, although his overall average over all World Cups does about match their's from 2018 too actually):

    Wolfgang Overath
    Switzerland 1966 - 8.5
    Uruguay 1970 - 8.4
    Australia 1974 - 8.3
    Yugoslavia 1974 - 8.2
    England 1970 - 8
    Sweden 1974 - 8
    Italy 1970 - 7.6
    Average: 8.14

    Enzo Scifo
    South Korea 1990 - 9
    Saudi Arabia 1994 - 8.3
    USSR 1986 - 8
    Morocco 1994 - 7.9
    Netherlands 1994 - 7.9
    England 1990 - 7.7
    Iraq 1986 or Mexico 1998 - 7.5
    Average: 8.04
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    He wasn't fully fit in 1998. He was substitute in the first game (Belgium, 65th minute), subbed out in three others (Korea 78th, Mexico 78th, Croatia 58th). But played of course the entire Argentina game.



    As a consequence his ratings vary a fair bit; his 1994WC tournament is surprisingly better rated as the trio Romario, Stoichkov and Baggio (maybe/arguably a sign the algorithm is not perfect, when *all three* are below - and also far below Hagi), with the Brazil game a solid rating as well (equal to Romario).

    SofaScore has also published a list where Hazard, Robben and Scifo are the 1st, 2nd and 5th most prolific European dribblers at the tournament.

    The SofaScore ratings do confirm/corroborate what I said/concluded before: if you factor in the variable of 'meaningful' games (i.e. Germany, France, England, Brazil, Argentina in competitive games and with progress at stake) it is possible to see Bergkamp as the best Oranje performer in tournaments. He has those performances against top class opposition (the 'FIFA royalty special perks' opposition) in each tournament he has played in.





    Time to tweak the algorithm I guess :rolleyes: (in order to please the latin cabals, the high-brow anglogerman alliance).

    The most bizarre thing of that is: he is MOTM in 6 of the 7 games (only not vs Uruguay, where Rep edges him); the margin to #2 in the tournament Deyna is 0.68 points.

    Another thing that has 'annoyed' me over the years: the labeling as a 'forward' (a ploy and trick leading to downward assessments; while of course Zico is an 'attacking midfielder' :rolleyes:). Well, SofaScore labels him as an 'M', thus midfielder... (and no, for the most part that does not apply as well to his younger years, especially until 1968)
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I noticed this briefly last night Puck (without logging in) and decided to come back and add a rep in the morning. Yes, good point about Bergkamp coming up with performances/contributions in several of the bigger games (I'd say in the World Cup his outright best display was probably vs South Korea, which Sofascore goes along with, and his best assist (a main forte of his) vs Mexico, but for sure that same year he made crucial and quality contributions vs Argentina of course, particularly the last one of the game!), and you're right of course about him going into the tournament recovering from injury and not being ready to start it or play the full amount of minutes (and with his fitness a limiting factor to some extent during the time he played, perhaps in a slightly different way to Ronaldo's - the Brazilian did also have some issues through the tournament I know, not only with what happened before the Final). That's interesting about the dribblers - it'd be interesting to see the list of 10 or whatever they produced, although I guess it is cumulative and depends on games played. Scifo's name is perhaps the surprising one you mention, but while obviously the definition of dribbling isn't extremely wide there might still be many occasions where he completes a single 'dribble' in effect by moving the ball past or around a player and then making a pass (I think you've alluded before to opinions, which make sense I think, that said he was better off not trying to dribble too much). Yeah, certain qualititative things might be beyond the scope of what Sofascore looks at, and I guess there aren't bonus points for timely and important contributions as such. I'm one who in most cases doesn't really see 'rebound assists' as worthy of being compared to full assists, and I was saying before I wasn't in favour of shots adding to a statistical score by default of course, but an example that comes to mind of where Romario perhaps wouldn't get full credit in the scoring system (although his team were 2-0 up already so probably that's the opposite of a 'clutch' example anyway, unlike the actual assist to Bebeto vs the USA) is vs Cameroon where there is the rebound off the goalie to Bebeto who scores (it is not so different to Laudrup vs Uruguay in 1986 where Elkjaer scores after the goalkeeper rebounds it to him I guess, although maybe, whatever was in Laudrup's mind, Sofascore could potentially have registered that one as a shot, while in Romario's case it seems like his touch would be intended to move the ball away from the goalkeeper but not directly into the goal). Planet World Cup interestingly does tally those kinds of things as assists (and some actual final pass assists aren't credited I think, where the goal is deemed 100% about what the scorer does I suppose, on the other hand):
    Planet World Cup - 1994 - Group B - Brazil v Cameroon
    Cameroon 0-3 Brazil | 1994 World Cup | Match Highlights - YouTube
    Planet World Cup - 1986 - Group E - Denmark v Uruguay
    1986 (June 8) Denmark 6-Uruguay 1 (World Cup).mpg - YouTube
    Both examples I refer to are just around/after 2 minutes on the respective videos funnily enough. That said, with Roberto Baggio having the more late stage of the tournament clutch moments maybe strictly in a comparison between those two it kind of works out well if that Romario contribution isn't give much (or any?) value by the system.

    Yeah, I guess for their overall average ratings countdown (for sure interesting - I noticed about 10 of the entries - a table would be interesting too but I'm not sure whether they produced that or not), I guess it was 7 games minimum (it surely makes sense to set it at a decent number of games anyway) otherwise Eusebio would be there with the same score he averaged from 1966. I'm not particularly surprised Cruyff scores the highest, as his overall involvements should show up well (I guess compared to Castrol's system there is a bit more weight to that - Castrol did seem to end up with some averages too high to me, and seemed to score substitute appearances too low maybe IIRC - I know those are difficult to factor in though - clearly with Sofascore there is scope to have very well rated performances of quite a bit less than 90 minutes anyway, although perhaps time on the pitch does still count for something I suspect, over and above having less actions and involvements than otherwise would be the case...or maybe not!). I'm not really making any judgement about whether they are likely to do any tweeks (that wasn't what the rep means, although probably you would realise that anyway I guess), and on the position one I can understand your frustration in terms of role (funnily I was almost arguing the other way re: Laudrup and Maradona from 1986 at the start of this thread, just because fowards show up with less passes etc I suppose, and therefore if Laudrup would be classed as a forward as is feasible for 1986, at least in the same category Maradona is placed in anyway which is what I was alluding too, his passing stats etc place him higher among forwards than midfielders!), and yeah I'm sure Sofscore focusing on placements on the field and where he was making all his touches can lead them towards putting Cruyff as midfielder (in effect false/roaming nine). I have some sympathy I guess with the classifications as a forward just because often the default is to look a the formation of a team and label it and in the case of that Dutch team it is usually classified as a 4-3-3. If there was a pure striker in the team in the CF position, and he played pretty much exactly the same way, maybe it'd be more likely most sources would label him a midfielder? But yeah, in the World Cup (particularly 1982) Zico was playing as more like a forward in general than Cruyff was in 1974 probably (certainly roaming deep and to the wings less - the latter would partly be about the players respective traits and abilities I suppose though), leaving the build up more to Socrates and Falcao, although Zico did still make an impact with his passing for sure when he did drop into the 'hole' and play the ball forwards.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Maybe interesting re: that 1994 World Cup (and others too in theory) to look at Sofascore Man of the Match awards....

    Roberto Baggio - 2 (vs Nigeria, Bulgaria)
    Gheorghe Hagi - 2 (vs Colombia, USA)
    Michel Preud'homme - 2 (vs Netherlands, Morocco)
    Kennet Andersson - 1 + 1 shared* (vs Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria*, shared with Brolin)
    Romario - 1 + 1 shared* (vs Sweden (semi-final), USA*, shared with Mauro Silva)
    Mohamed Al-Deayea - 1 (vs Morocco)
    Leonel Alvarez - 1 (vs Switzerland)
    Daniel Amokachi - 1 (vs Greece)
    Krassimir Balakov - 1 (vs Argentina)
    Dino Baggio - 1 (vs Norway)
    Gabriel Batistuta - 1 (vs Greece)
    Bebeto - 1 (vs Netherlands)
    Dennis Bergkamp - 1 (vs Morocco)
    Stig Inge Bjornebye - 1 (vs Mexico)
    Pat Bonner - 1 (vs Norway)
    Georges Bregy - 1 (vs USA)
    Jose Luis Caminero (- 1 (vs Bolivia)
    Claudio Caniggia - 1 (vs Nigeria)
    Martin Dahlin - 1 (vs Russia)
    Roberto Donadoni - 1 (vs Spain)
    Ilie Dumitrescu - 1 (vs Argentina)
    Dunga - 1 (vs Cameroon)
    Luis Garcia - 1 (vs Ireland)
    Thomas Hassler - 1 (vs Bolivia)
    Ray Houghton - 1 (vs Italy)
    Hong Myung-Bo - 1 (vs Spain)
    Wim Jonk - 1 (vs Saudi Arabia)
    Jurgen Klinsmann - 1 (vs South Korea)
    Ronald Koeman - 1 (vs Ireland)
    Adrian Knup - 1 (vs Romania)
    Marcio Santos - 1 (vs Sweden - grp stage)
    Lothar Matthaus - 1 (vs Bulgaria)
    Tony Meola - 1 (vs Colombia)
    Boris Mihailov - 1 (vs Mexico)
    Sunday Oliseh - 1 (vs Bulgaria)
    Gianluca Pagliuca - 1 (vs Brazil)
    Florin Raducioiu - 1 (vs Sweden)
    Rai - 1 (vs Russia)
    Oleg Salenko - 1 (vs Cameroon)
    Stefan Schwarz - 1 (vs Cameroon)
    Enzo Scifo - 1 (vs Saudi Arabia)
    Hristo Stoichkov - 1 (vs Greece)
    Thomas Strunz - 1 (vs Spain)
    Carlos Trucco - 1 (vs South Korea)
    Rudi Voller - 1 (vs Belgium)
    Antonio Benarrivo - 1 shared (vs Mexico, with Massaro)
    Tomas Brolin - 1 shared (vs Bulgaria, with Andersson)
    Daniel Massaro - 1 shared (vs Mexico, as half-time sub, with Benarrivo)
    Mauro Silva - 1 shared (vs USA, with Romario)


    For later years (this century) the FIFA MOTM awards could be compared I suppose, but for years like this maybe the media top ratings in each match could be compared (as posted on individual World Cup threads). Perhaps Sofscore MOTM awards would lean a little more towards end product I suspect, but maybe not as much as Castrol ones might have done....
     
    Gregoire1 and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks. Apologies for a few typos in my post above too (nothing too confusing I guess though; maybe Daniele Massaro with a missing e the 'worst' lol, although I guess his name does indeed translate to Daniel!).
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    As a quick reference source (that specifically chose a Man of the Match too), although just one source and various others have been posted on that thread and they vary a bit for sure:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/t...-1994-world-cup.2033907/page-10#post-40592805

    Bolding the ones that match the Sofascore verdict....
    (5 is the 'average' mark from this source I'd say)

    Germany vs Bolivia: Sammer (7) with Hassler on 5.
    Spain vs South Korea: Canizares (7) with Hong on 6.
    USA vs Switzerland: Wynalda (7) with Bregy on 6.
    Ireland vs Italy: Townsend (8) with Houghton on 6.
    Romania vs Columbia: Hagi (9).
    Belgium vs Morocco: Preud'homme (7).
    Norway vs Mexico: Campos (7) with Bjornebye on 6.
    Cameroon vs Sweden: Omam-Biyick (7) with Schwarz on 6.
    Brazil vs Russia: Romario (7) with Rai on 6.
    Netherlands vs Saudi Arabia: Owairan (7) with Jonk also on 7.
    Argentina vs Greece: Batistuta (8).
    Germany vs Spain: Sergi (7) with Strunz on 5.
    Nigeria vs Bulgaria: Yekini (7) with Oliseh on 5.
    Switzerland vs Romania: Sutter (8) with Knup on 7.
    USA vs Colombia: Balboa (7) with Meola also on 7.
    Italy vs Norway: Signori (8) with D.Baggio on 6.
    Bolivia vs South Korea: Rimba (7) with Trucco also on 7.
    Mexico vs Ireland: Garcia (8).
    Brazil vs Cameroon: Romario (7) with Dunga also on 7.
    Sweden vs Russia: Dahlin (8).
    Belgium vs Netherlands: Preud'homme (9).
    Saudi Arabia vs Morocco: Al-Deayea (7).
    Argentina vs Nigeria: Caniggia (8).
    Bulgaria vs Greece: Stoichkov (7).
    Romania vs USA: Hagi (8).
    Colombia vs Switzerland: Valderrama (7) with Alvarez on 5.
    Spain vs Bolivia: Caminero (8).
    Germany vs South Korea: Klinsmann (7).
    Ireland vs Norway: Keane (7) with Bonner also on 7.
    Italy vs Mexico: Ramirez Parales (7) with Massaro also on 7, and Benarrivo on 5.
    Russia vs Cameroon: Salenko (10).
    Brazil vs Sweden: Marcio Santos (7).
    Saudi Arabia vs Belgium: Owairan (9) with Scifo on 6.
    Netherlands vs Morocco: Bergkamp (7).
    Bulgaria vs Argentina: Stoichkov (7) with Balakov I think on 6 but they wrote another player's name who didn't play by mistake.
    Nigeria vs Greece: Amokachi (7).
    Germany vs Belgium: Hassler (9) with Voller also on 9.
    Spain vs Switzerland: Luis Enrique (7). - sorry, I missed that one off my Sofascore summary originally.
    Sweden vs Saudi Arabia: Andersson (7).
    Romania vs Argentina: Hagi (8) with Dumitrescu also on 8.
    Netherlands vs Ireland: Bergkamp (8) with Koeman on 7.
    Brazil vs USA: Romario (8), with Mauro Silva on 5.
    Italy vs Nigeria: R.Baggio (7).
    Bulgaria vs Mexico: Mihailov (8).
    Italy vs Spain: Maldini (7) with Donadoni on 5.
    Netherlands vs Brazil: Branco (8) with Bebeto also on 8.
    Bulgaria vs Germany: Letchkov (8) with Matthaus on 7.
    Sweden vs Romania: Ravelli (7) with Raducioiu also on 7.
    Italy vs Bulgaria: R.Baggio (8).
    Brazil vs Sweden: Romario (7).
    Sweden vs Bulgaria: Brolin (8), with Andersson on 6.
    Brazil vs Italy: Taffarel (8) with Pagliuca on 5.
     
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I've done it the other way round now and added the Sofascore grades for comparison in bold, with the second mark being the Sofascore MOTM where they differ, so the player order remains the same as written.

    I'm suggesting possibly Sofascore select the MOTM as Massaro, Romario and Brolin in those cases just because those players are highlighted as the top rated ones of their team in the game summary on the left of the pages, but their Sofascore ratings are tied anyway to one decimal place, so I'm not really sure whether that's right.


    Germany vs Bolivia: Sammer (7) with Hassler on 5. (7.7 compared to 8)
    Spain vs South Korea: Canizares (7) with Hong on 6. (7.3 compared to 8.5)
    USA vs Switzerland: Wynalda (7) with Bregy on 6. (7.3 compared to 8.2)
    Ireland vs Italy: Townsend (8) with Houghton on 6. (7.1 compared to 7.8)
    Romania vs Columbia: Hagi (9). (9.4)
    Belgium vs Morocco: Preud'homme (7). (8.4)
    Norway vs Mexico: Campos (7) with Bjornebye on 6. (7.1 compared to 8)
    Cameroon vs Sweden: Omam-Biyick (7) with Schwarz on 6. (7.6 compared to 8.7)
    Brazil vs Russia: Romario (7) with Rai on 6. (7.3 compared to 8.1)
    Netherlands vs Saudi Arabia: Owairan (7) with Jonk also on 7. (6.6 compared to 8.5)
    Argentina vs Greece: Batistuta (8). (9.1)
    Germany vs Spain: Sergi (7) with Strunz on 5. (6.1 compared to 7.9)
    Nigeria vs Bulgaria: Yekini (7) with Oliseh on 5. (7.5 compared to 8.3)
    Switzerland vs Romania: Sutter (8) with Knup on 7. (7.6 compared to 8.6)
    USA vs Colombia: Balboa (7) with Meola also on 7. (7.2 compared to 8.2)
    Italy vs Norway: Signori (8) with D.Baggio on 6. (8 compared to 8.3)
    Bolivia vs South Korea: Rimba (7) with Trucco also on 7. (8.2 compared to 8.5)
    Mexico vs Ireland: Garcia (8). (8.7)
    Brazil vs Cameroon: Romario (7) with Dunga also on 7. (7.2 compared to 8.8)
    Sweden vs Russia: Dahlin (8). (8.9)
    Belgium vs Netherlands: Preud'homme (9). (8.7)
    Saudi Arabia vs Morocco: Al-Deayea (7). (8.2)
    Argentina vs Nigeria: Caniggia (8). (8.7)
    Bulgaria vs Greece: Stoichkov (7). (8.9)
    Romania vs USA: Hagi (8). (8)
    Colombia vs Switzerland: Valderrama (7) with Alvarez on 5. (7.5 compared to 7.9)
    Spain vs Bolivia: Caminero (8). (8.5)
    Germany vs South Korea: Klinsmann (7). (8.7)
    Ireland vs Norway: Keane (7) with Bonner also on 7. (7 compared to 7.7)
    Italy vs Mexico: Ramirez Parales (7) with Massaro also on 7, and Benarrivo on 5. (7.5 compared to 7.7 for the Italian pair, but possibly Massaro selected as Sofascore MOTM?)
    Russia vs Cameroon: Salenko (10). (10)
    Brazil vs Sweden: Marcio Santos (7). (8)
    Saudi Arabia vs Belgium: Owairan (9) with Scifo on 6. (7.7 compared to 8.3)
    Netherlands vs Morocco: Bergkamp (7). (8)
    Bulgaria vs Argentina: Stoichkov (7) with Balakov I think on 6 but they wrote another player's name who didn't play by mistake. (7.1 compared to 8.1)
    Nigeria vs Greece: Amokachi (7). (8.6)
    Germany vs Belgium: Hassler (9) with Voller also on 9. (7.8 compared to 9.2)
    Spain vs Switzerland: Luis Enrique (7). - sorry, I missed that one off my Sofascore summary originally. (8)
    Sweden vs Saudi Arabia: Andersson (7). (9.8)
    Romania vs Argentina: Hagi (8) with Dumitrescu also on 8. (8.4 compared to 9)
    Netherlands vs Ireland: Bergkamp (8) with Koeman on 7. (7.1 compared to 7.9)
    Brazil vs USA: Romario (8), with Mauro Silva on 5. (8 for both, but possibly Romario selected as Sofascore MOTM anyway?)
    Italy vs Nigeria: R.Baggio (7). (9.2)
    Bulgaria vs Mexico: Mihailov (8). (8.7)
    Italy vs Spain: Maldini (7) with Donadoni on 5. (7.4 compared to 7.8)
    Netherlands vs Brazil: Branco (8) with Bebeto also on 8. (8.3 compared to 8.4)
    Bulgaria vs Germany: Letchkov (8) with Matthaus on 7. (7.5 compared to 8.2)
    Sweden vs Romania: Ravelli (7) with Raducioiu also on 7. (7.7 compared to 9)
    Italy vs Bulgaria: R.Baggio (8). (8.4)
    Brazil vs Sweden: Romario (7). (8.5)
    Sweden vs Bulgaria: Brolin (8), with Andersson on 6. (8.7 for both, but possibly Sofascore imply Brolin MOTM anyway?)
    Brazil vs Italy: Taffarel (8) with Pagliuca on 5. (8.2 compared to 9.7)
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah I think it is not totally fair they have 'robbed' the number one spot from Eusebio (he is labelled as an 'F', forward, by them). An asterisk or footnote would/should have been fair and representative.

    It can be noted though that the differences to the other top rated players in 1966 aren't as large as in 1974 (0.68 gap to #2). The gap to #2 is 0.22 and to #3 is 0.50 (still substantial, no doubt), and there are six players in total within a range of 0.68.

    Maybe because it was a more conducive tournament for getting high ratings (as was 1970, to a more obvious degree).

    [​IMG]
     
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I definitely think there were a few star performers in 1966, but to some extent (not for Pele I suppose!) it might have been easier too.

    If Sofascore do reward shots taken (even with no goal scored, or even favourable rebound, corner won etc) to some degree though then that might be elevating Eusebio's average score for the tournament above Cruyff's I guess (and it's far from certain it'd stay there with a 7th game played of course).
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Re: the 1994 ratings again, I posted the link earlier of course, so won't add further analysis, but looking at La Stampa grades I found for example, quite a few (but not all) of the cases of 'agreement' between Sofascore and El Grafico are cases of agreement with La Stampa too. Sometimes La Stampa grades are more similar to one verdict or the other (the other media grade from El Grafico, or the stats calculation from Sofascore) where there are differences between them, but sometimes (Marcio Santos vs Sweden in the group game for example) they are clearly different from both.
     
  17. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Key pass should be every pass that leads to a shot.. in my understanding.

    Big chance is relatively modern statistics which includes key passes with a shot that has higher xG than 0.25 or something like that..

    I could be wrong tho, especially about big chances
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  18. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Gregoire1 and carlito86 repped this.
  19. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    2018 stats werent retroactively added in so they include full stats (shown and hidden) that go into the algoritm. That might explain your confusion.

    And they dont take into consideration the quality of opposition onyl stats
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I see this now too from Sofascore (although from a few years ago, and this World Cup data is provided by OPTA who I think I'm right in saying had the same numbers for 'chances created' which I maybe thought had included assists too - but if key passes don't include assists in the data then maybe they should be added together to get 'chances provided' in effect - I'm thinking they do though).
    Sofascore on Twitter: "@AlexTruica 'Key pass' is by definition a pass to a guy who then had a shot on goal (but didn't score). 'Second assist' is a pass that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, like a through ball or cross into a dangerous position. That's how they are defined " / Twitter

    I think I saw some reference to key passes being important passes in the build-up to goals before, but probably not in terms of actual stats site terminology (I remember in one Fantasy Football game I played quite a few years ago 'key contributions' were wider than assists though, I think, allowing for inclusion of certain passes before the final one).
     
  22. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    2014 stats are retroactively added based on not in-depth stats that would penalize defensive errors or missing big chance.
     
  23. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Hmm i didnt know that key passes exclude assists tho it makes sense in terms of the algorithm so that they dotn double count pass
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #324 PDG1978, Nov 21, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
    Yeah, maybe it's worth after the England-Iran game finishes having a quick check, firstly on whether chances created (as recorded by OPTA, and referred to at the start of this thread) are the same numbers as the key pass data for pre-2018 World Cups, and secondly whether chances created (with OPTA) and/or the retrospective 'key pass' data for World Cups on Sofascore is meant to include assists or not.

    I can see what you mean about the 2018 data being more complete anyway, so I suppose the overall scores for pre-2018 aren't completely comparable to the 2018 ones. They would have had to look back at all the old matches again themselves to add in 'big chances created' data for example, rather than using the OPTA data. I'd thought 'errors leading to goals' might be shown for pre-2018 but maybe that's not right either then: I knew some possible examples weren't registered as such but I assumed that was because they were not clear-cut enough (but would be things that would happen often and just happened to lead to goals eventually in those cases; such as Scifo before Owairan's solo goal in Belgium-Saudi Arabia or Redondo before the Siasia goal, after receiving the ball from a team-mate still, following multiple passes after Redondo gave the ball away, in Argentina-Nigeria in that 1994 World Cup).
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It does look like the OPTA chances created numbers didn't include assists, but the Sofascore key pass data has been adjusted so that it does actually, as I've used half-time to check an example where a player played 90 minutes of every game of his team:
    Frank Vercauteren No team videos, transfer history and stats - Sofascore
    21 key passes (4.2 multiplied by 5) = 20 chances created + 1 assist, it seems (for 1982 - I copied and pasted once I'd selected that but using the link it seems to need selecting again, instead of 1986).

    If anything I was expecting the opposite way round, but it'd mean the key pass data does include assists if that's right then....

    I see now that the 'error leading to goal' data is there for every World Cup since 1966 anyway (I think I had realised before, but just wasn't sure when I posted earlier) - if OPTA didn't originally record that (I don't think it was on their 'widget' on their site if I remember correctly, but then maybe dribble data was not even on that as it was part of the duels data if I remember correctly...and I assume OPTA did give Sofascore the specific dribble data) then that would be easier for Sofascore to check than big chances created though of course, just looking at all the goals.
     

Share This Page