The things we hear is back - 2021,22 and more edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by RefIADad, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    "How come you're not calling any fouls on them, ref?!?"

    ...coach, has it occurred to you that maybe your team has been doing all the fouling?
     
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  2. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    Had another long-time poster as my AR tonight on a ridiculous U18 game where, despite some restraint, I gave 12 yellow cards (thankfully no red cards) and threw out a parent. One incident was worth sharing:

    At one point, a player took an unwise FRD card and was immediately substituted out by his coach. While I was writing the card in my book, an opponent said something along the lines of "guess they can take him out now that he got his three minutes in" — an overtly disrespectful remark about his opponent.

    I told the kid off, told him I'd send him off if I heard anything like that again, and made it clear that disrespecting opponents will not be tolerated when I'm the referee. He visually expressed his displeasure (and unfortunately, the parents nearby were audibly agreeing with him and excusing his remark), but seemed to have gotten the message. Then, his teammate decided to chime in with “yeah, he has feelings too”, dripping with teenage sarcasm. So the teammate got a yellow card for his remark and everyone was put on notice that I wasn't kidding when I said I wasn't going to tolerate players disrespecting one another.

    There was still plenty more bullshit to deal with in the game, but at least I drew a hard line on that particular issue.
     
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  3. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Absolutely ZERO wrong with hard-lining disrespect to an opponent. Completely unnecessary and those little digs can lead to the moment that turns into a mass confrontation.

    Only suggestion is to avoid threats like
    or anything else on the field (ex. "next one is a caution") because then you're forced to back it up with action. Especially something like this... if he said something so egregious that you're going to send him off next time, why are you allowing it now? And if you just threatened one player with a send-off if you hear him disrespect again, why are you only giving his similarly disrespectful teammate a caution?
     
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  4. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Moderator

    May 9, 2011
    nj
    Generally agree, although with these particular kids I'm not sure anything other than a concrete threat of expulsion would've been too effective, and I get that most referees they've had probably wouldn't think twice about the comment, so the fact that I was coming down on him was likely a surprise. The second comment wasn't as blatantly disrespectful as the first, so I felt like yellow was appropriate there, but if I had heard another comment akin to the first one, I would've considered it to be insulting/abusive and sent off the offender.
     
  5. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I had U14 game last weekend in which one team was significantly bigger than the other. Both teams fouled a considerable amount, but when Team A fouled, they often disrupted play, and I blew the whistle. Team B's fouls were so ineffectual that I must have called advantage at least six times.

    Parents, of course, got on my case about not calling anything for their team. I guessed they were away from the sideline when Team B finally committed a noteworthy foul, giving Team A a 20-yard free kick. It's a pity they missed it. While Team B was goofing off with their wall setup, the kick-taker from Team A asked if he could go ahead and take it. I said yes. Damned if he didn't drill it into the upper corner. It was beautiful.

    I did lose a bit of credibility over a situation that was partially explained by having a young, inexperienced AR. I saw a possible foul when a Team A player bumped into a player from Team B. The Team B played kept going into the area, and shot, and in the ensuing scramble, Team A's keeper was hurt. The AR had a better view of the possible foul but never raised his flag. I went over to ask him, and over the course of several questions, he finally said there was indeed a foul.

    So I had to award Team B a free kick while Team A's keeper was being treated for something that happened well after the foul.

    Right call, but bad timing.
     
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  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Obviously YHTBT, but consider whether there was actual advantage on these--i.e. that the opportunity for the team was better than the FK would have been. That sounds generally unlikely at the 14U level to have that 6 times.

    Be careful about conflating trifling (not enough impact to be considered a foul that should be called) and advantage (better for the victim's team to not call the foul).

    Again, YHTBT, but you might want to consider whether you are over using advantage at that level of play.
     
  7. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    My line is "earrings, necklaces, bracelets, fitbits, tracking devices......". I usually get some kind of confused response...."whaaaaa?" So at least I know some of them are paying attention to me.
     
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  8. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Officiating a low level u-12 boys games, one player intentionally hits the ball with his arm to bring it to his feet. I blow the whistle and call the foul.

    He looks at me and asks, “You can’t play it with your arm? I thought it was only the hand.”

    “In soccer, this whole thing is considered a ‘hand,’l I reply. “It’s basically the whole arm except the shoulder.”

    “Oh, they should probably call it an ‘armball’ them.”
     
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  9. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    He’s not wrong
     
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  10. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    But if you change it from "Handling" to "Arming" that could create some confusion.
     
    dadman, Beau Dure and Kit repped this.
  11. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    For games in America, if you yell out "arming", everyone's going to duck and cover thinking there's an active shooter at the field
     
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  12. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "She can't be offside! The keeper saved it!"
     
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  13. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Not exactly something we heard but....
    Men's O-58. The ball goes over about a six foot fence near midfield. No nearby gate. Since we had spare balls at each goal, "Keep! Can we get a ball?" He picks up a ball, pauses, apparently to think about what he's going to do, and then he punts it. Over the fence, just about the same place the first ball went out. :(
     
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  14. robssecondjob

    robssecondjob Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    May 16, 2017
    End of a really long 6+ game day (the + was an AR going down with an ankle injury and I happened to be sitting getting set for next game), U12 boys game.

    I am in the center with two young, but capable ARs. Lines are super light so I am really relying on the ARs. Parents of the red team are really starting to chirp about throw in directions. I am a little baffled because there wasn't anything like a close call. Mostly clear touches from a couple yards out and ARs have confident calls.

    After a really leather lunged parent started up I blew the whistle and trotted over to the coach. I warned him he needed to have his parents let me call the game and just enjoy the day. His response was "How do you know they are my parents?". My response "Well, they want all the throws to be given to red and you have red uniforms". That seemed to placate him until he responded with "So they aren't allowed to yell at you?". Me "You are aware of the zero tolerance policy you all signed, right?". Him "I didn't think that really meant anything."

    He did warn his parents and behaved professionally for the rest of the day.
     
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  15. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Competitive u-16 girls game (yellow vs white)

    Yellow is attacking the white goal and in the penalty area. The ball is in the air and a white defender plays the ball with a dangerous high kick near a yellow player's face. However, the ball lands at the feet of another yellow player who shoots and scores. In the instant that the ball landed at the yellow player's feet, I thought about yelling "Play on! Advantage!" But then that might have confused everyone with an advantage call in the penalty area on an indirect free kick foul. After the game, I explain that to the winning coach as I am returning the player passes. He says, "I probably would have yelled something if you did that."
     
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  16. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    So many Laws clarifications/misunderstandings today among coaches. (Our center, who's young, did quite well.)

    - A coach insisted that a player doesn't have to play the ball (or interfere with play, etc.) to commit an offside offense. And insisted. And insisted. He was one word away from yellow.

    - Twice, an onrushing attacker yelled at the keeper who was coming out to get it, just to distract him. I was glad the center told him to knock it off.

    - My favorite: A keeper held onto the ball as he left the area to punt it. Opposing team coach asked me what the call was. I explained -- handball, because the keeper was handling the ball outside the area. "Isn't that a red card?" he said. I actually had to stop and think for a second because the question was so bizarre. It's not DOGSO but GOGSO -- giving an obvious goal-scoring opportunity!
     
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  17. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #992 15 to 32, Jun 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    This reminds me of a really strange situation I had play out with a crew at a state cup semi final a few weeks back.

    Red team has possession of the ball in their defensive half and play the ball back to their keeper. She receives the ball with her feet a good 2-3 yards outside the penalty area. The closest teammate (who played the ball) is 15 yards up field. Everyone else has moved up and wide for the anticipated clearance.

    you know where this is going

    Black team forward sprints at the keeper, causing her to panic. She takes a touch sideways/forward (away from the penalty area) that is heavy and comes together with the forward. The contact is minimal and both players are now shoulder to shoulder going towards the ball. The keeper inexplicably jumps on it and picks it up. Again, 2-3 yards outside the box.

    I'm the 4O in this game. The incident takes place on the side of the field with the keepers / red team bench. The coaching staff from the black team jump up and yell "hey!" The center does a great job of sprinting in stopping any frustrations or stepping on the keeper. The center then pulls out.... a yellow card.

    Oh crap

    The coaching staff of the black team is shocked at first then turn to me and go "that has to be red, right?". To their credit, they aren't freaking out. It's said in a level voice but I know if we don't get this right, things are going to go sideways. I look down the line at AR1 (this incident being to my right means he's on the line closest to me) and he has the same "wtf" look on his face that I later find out I do too.

    AR1 and I make eye contact, I yell that I need to talk to the center and/or he does. The center luckily overhears this and starts making their way over. They had been setting the wall up for the ensuing free kick with the black players surprisingly not having too much of a fit about the situation.

    The center and I have a conversation. I ask why they didn't consider this dogso handling. They said, in a way that is somewhat logical, that the attacking team never had possession. I challenge them by saying "they didn't have a chance to get possession because the keeper handled the ball".

    I didn't handle myself very well in this, though, because the coaching staff for the black team is just feet away. They hear at least 75% of our conversation, if not all of it. I screwed up here and realize it before the center goes back to the play. I ask them to go confirm with AR1 that no other defenders were within playing distance of the ball. I know nobody was remotely close (all of the red team froze, more or less, as the play took place) but this makes it not look so much like the coaching staff impacted/dictated the decision. AR1 confirms. The keeper is sent off.

    The black coach has been seated the entire time, not saying a word. He knew they were getting lucky if the yellow stood. However, in the second half, things unraveled when the black team is attacking towards the top corner of the box and the keeper comes sliding out to win the ball. I don't have a great angle on it, but know there was certainly contact. The center yells out "no!" and waves their arms in a big sweeping no motion. Great, right? Except AR1 pops his flag at the exact same time, waving for a foul (this play is on the corner of the box near him).

    The ball nearly goes out of play, but the black team saves it and turns back towards goal... only to lose it to the red team who spring a counter. Which really sucked because the ball going out would have been perfect for the center and AR1 to discuss what just happened. Instead, I'm now dealing with the red coach irate that "you guys let their coaching staff talk you into a red on my keeper but you won't call that foul!? Your AR even called it a foul!". While not completely correct, he's not wrong with how bad this situation was handled.

    In post-game, the center and AR1 discuss what happened. Center says she saw the keeper make contact with the ball and then come through the player as she slid. AR1 says "I had a foul... outside the penalty area". Which, yeah, this isn't great. The center was roughly 10 yards from play and said it was inside the penalty area, but AR1 was adamant that they were a foot or two outside the area.

    There was an assessor there, though they weren't doing a formal assessment. The feedback they gave was... strange. On the dogso handling they asked if the center (or anyone else) had considered a foul on the gk. Was there contact? Sure, but a foul? Certainly not. Not even with the halo keepers are afforded (purposefully or not) and defenders in situations like this. In fact, I felt the keeper initiated the contact with her touch/movement.

    As for the second incident, he said it looked chaotic and that he wanted play to stop. Though I'm not sure what would have been the cleanest way to do that, either.
     
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  18. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Yeah, that's not the most helpful advice on a chaotic situation.

    Yet another situation we had yesterday -- corner kick, lots of action in the mixer. Center correctly calls a handball on the attacking team. But I have my flag up. She thinks it's for the handball. I have to wave the flag more, and I start moving to the corner of my box. That gets her attention.

    Before the handball, I saw a defender's forearm hit the back of attacking player's head. JUST before the handball.

    Not reckless, not excessive force, but absolutely careless. I had a clear view of it; the center did not.

    So the call changes from a free kick for the defense to a PK for the attacker.

    I stand by the call 100% (unlike a couple of really close offside calls when all these guys were at top speed). But it didn't *look* good.
     
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  19. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Perhaps my favorite consideration is, "If there is no offence, does the player have an obvious opportunity to score a goal?"
     
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  20. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    Is the right move to blow the whistle here (as the possesion changes) and go over and talk to the AR? The CR and the AR can get on the same page with the call/no call, reducing the "chaos". If nothing is forthcoming, then drop ball to Red. Is that the way this should be handled?
     
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  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Like so many things, it depends. If the R is confident in his no-call, then just waving the AR down and continuing play is perfectly appropriate (and seems he was given the emphatic "no"). If the R is less confident or thinks the AR may have something important to share, it is certainly within his discretion to stop play to consult with the AR. It is discretion that should be very rarely used, but this might have been an appropriate place.

    (R's who stop should be cognizant of the restarts--much safer when the defending team has the ball or it the ball is at midfield, as a DB in the attacking third can create an attacking opportunity, and if an attacker has the ball in the PA, it's really bad as the ball would be turned over to the GK.)
     
  22. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am AR1 at a women's open game. Most of the players are in college or late high school but there are a few that are "older." About halfway through the first half, as I run by the home team bench, I hear two players talking. One says, "She's got to be old." The other responds, "Yeah, she already has two kids!"
     
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  23. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So 19?
     
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  24. ShayG

    ShayG Member+

    Celtic
    United States
    Aug 9, 2021
    Can we start a pool on what state davidjd is in?
     
  25. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    North Carolina?
     
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