2022 WC Qualifiers

Discussion in 'Ecuador - National Team' started by Primitive Ways, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    It doesn't matter who you put in at striker if the service is not there the striker can't score goals. We don't have players who can cross or play in the striker with through balls. This is why I prefer Campana he tends to make good passes and put other through on goal he did it this game as well. I feel our players get too caught up in trying to do TOO MUCH being extra and what not. For instance when Estupinan tries to cross he always tries to put crazy curve and velocity on it and it's unnecessary just makes it harder on himself sometimes simple is better.
     
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  2. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Some guys don't pass to Campana. I'm not sure what the constant issue is with perceptions about Campana's privilege vs. the rest of the team, but he didn't get a few passes in open spaces that could have possibly led to something else, and I think the rumors about some players resenting his background and ascension to pro ball might be a possible root...my concern is primarily around Plata's fragility and also the individualistic nature of our guys at the wrong time.

    I won't even knock Pervis - overall, he filled his role and did a relatively good job supporting on defense. The team isn't currently built to exploit centers.

    I was talking with a few of the players after the match in the hotel lobby, and I spotted a well known US-based Latino TV sportscaster (I won't mention names to bring up rumors) who has MAJOR reservations about el profe Alfaro - much of it is trying to get the "best" out of our guys. In short, the perception is that he took us pretty far and renewed the squad, but it seems like the general consensus among the footballing intelligentsia is that he probably won't (or shouldn't) get a contract renewal after the World Cup. I think there is ample evidence to suggest he lacks the ability to maximize player output and the guys seem tactically hampered and unable to play creative ball as a team. We're individualistic at the wrong times and in the wrong spaces, and it's costing us chances.

    On a side-note, Cifuentes is a class act with the fans. So was Sarmiento, M. Caicedo, Arreaga, Franco, Estrada and Dida (an old friend). Carlitos Gruezo being the ultimate introvert still went out to take pics with the fans for a decent amount of time, which is admirable because homeboy DOES NOT feel comfortable around people. Pervis was cool enough to come out and sign shirts and take some pics, but he didn't hang for a long time. Hincapie, Plata (before the game...b/c he went to the hospital after), and Galindez basically bolted straight for the elevators. It was pretty shameful to be honest. Castillo kept a low profile and I don't blame him for trying to avoid the limelight.

    We're probably seeing the last bits of true openness from the team when it comes to engaging with fans. I do not expect the next cycle after the World Cup being so open. There are already signs that FEF is de-emphasizing fan interaction - it used to be that logistics announcements included training and hospitality schedules with locations included....now, all we know are match days and when the team heads out for a new city. From a security standpoint, I understand the need for discretion, but it's still pretty sad that these tours don't include formal times for fans to visit. It's good for players to interact with the fans, and it gives them a nice chance to just mix it up with normal folks...many of them still lack good/solid communications skills. If it wasn't for the gossip mill talking about the hotel/training details, nobody would have known on this US tour...and I live 5 mins away from where the team was staying- lucky to have at least been around for it.
     
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  3. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Per usual - nice post. Glad you got to share some experiences with these guys.

    IMO Alfaro is a victim of his own success. We will repeat the ridiculous decision of Colombia of letting Pekerman go when his cycle was closing in on it's full reward. If Ecuador was actually scoring more of their clear opportunities, the narrative would be very different. You can't say he isn't trying different strikers, I think only Reasco missed out on time these past three games.

    For the root of the problem a good place to start is the data -

    Ecuador Shots/on target/goals per game since the beginning of the year:


    v. Brazil (10 shots, 1 on target, 1 goal)
    v. Peru (10 shots, 3 on target, 1 goal)
    v. Paraguay (13 shots, 4 on target, 1 goal)
    v. Argentina (10 shots, 3 on target, 1 goal)
    v. Nigeria (12 shots, 5 on target, 1 goal)
    v. Mexico (9 shots, 1 on target, 0 goal)
    v. Cape Verde (16 shots, 5 on target, 1 goal)

    Total: 80 shots, 22 on target, 6 goals
    Shots on target: 27.5 %
    Goals per shot on target: 27.27%


    Now let's look at a similar team, Peru:

    v. Panama (14, 6, 1)
    v. Jamaica (17, 7, 3)
    v. Colombia (4, 1, 1)
    v. Ecuador (12, 5, 1)
    v. Uruguay (7, 2, 0)
    v. Paraguay (9, 3, 2)
    v. New Zealand (8, 1, 1)

    Total: 71 shots, 25 on target, 9 goals
    Shots on target: 35.2%
    Goals per shot on target: 36%


    Uruguay *(includes one 2021 game because we want to get to 7 for each):

    v. Bolivia (17, 4, 0)
    v. Paraguay (15, 4, 1)
    v. Venezuela (22, 11, 4)
    v. Peru (14, 2, 1)
    v. Chile (15, 6, 2)
    v. Mexico (10, 4, 3)
    v. USA (12, 4, 0)

    Total: 105 shots, 25 on target, 11 goals
    Shots on target: 23.08%
    Goals per shot on target: 44%


    These are the two teams that finished next to us in the qualifiers - therefore are the SA teams with supposed similar hierarchy. We are severely lacking in putting them in the back of the net per shot on target. Why? - it's not that we aren't shooting, we have more shots than Peru, and our accuracy is better than Uruguays.

    Who are the starting 9's for the top teams in the Ecuadorian Serie A? who's the top Ecuadorian goalscorer in general in the liga nacional? We can't complain that the team doesn't create opportunities for a non-existant hombre de area. Enner, Campana, Estrada, and Caicedo have all been experimented and it just doesn't come together.
     
  4. cabezamagica

    cabezamagica Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    NYC
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    But the difference is 2 games each for Campana and Caicedo where as the other two have had plenty of time to improve or get out of funk and it hasn’t happened.If we can see the stats for all our forwards it would paint a better picture.in other news the socceroos psyched out the Peruvians by putting a specialist for the penalty shots,kinda reminded me of how Ecuador has been playing,all effort and not too much to show and it comes to bite you at the end.
     
  5. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    any good Colombian forwards we can bring into the team?

    /I’m just joking
     
  6. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    LMAO Don't let the AFNP see this, theyre going to bring it forward as damning evidence.

    I would love to compile that too, but I think the trend will show similar results. I agree that the sample size for anyone not named Estrada or Enner is very diminutive. But my question to you is when should have they started? Before losing against Paraguay and qualifying, would you really have started Campana over Estrada? Was J. Caicedo even on the radar during the Copa America?

    I wish we had a few more friendlies before the WC, because with some fine tuning I think we may find that Tenorio-esque player that shows some consistency in scoring. I know sooo many of us have been saying this too, but we need to really dig deep and begin to build up our forwards from the national league. It's not impossible, we've had our Benitez's, our Felipao's, Delgado's, even Tenorio aguantaba balon.
     
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  7. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador

    This is an excellent assessment, but the data is also misleading and artificially inflates attacking options/shots in non-accountable games. Take out friendlies and we're left with a much smaller and less impressive tally...Peru and Ecuador regrettably suffer from a similar issue while Uruguay clearly outpaces both.

    I was watching Campana on the pitch, and either my eyes deceived me, or my angle/vantage point was just bad, but home boy does not look like a fast option up the pitch. He runs, but he's clearly a step slower. When you look at his figure and muscle mass, one must assume this is an issue for him...he's jacked, but he seemed slow to me. Jordy, on the other hand, seems like the quicker option, and if I'm Alfaro, I'm sticking with him up front - the dude needs quality minutes consistently to really jive with the players. The bulk of the squad has been starting together for a while. Along w/ Sarmiento, he's one of the newbies, and I believe he has a lot to show us. He could be the next Felipao.
     
  8. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    ^
    We are playing Japan and Saudi Arabia.


    ^
    I do believe Campana is rather slow but something I noticed which I like was the he muscles himself into defenders which I think would open space if we played with 2 guys up front which I don’t think we have done.

    Btw, am I the only one who thinks that Sarmiento can be our generador de jugadas in the midfield? I think we got decent options on the left that we could try him in another position.
     
  9. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Yea Campana looked slow to me too I think he added a lot of muscle to his upper body when he should be focusing on strengthening his core to increase explosiveness. When I played football in college I was a running back and wouldn't do too much heavy upper body training just low weight high rep stuff and mostly my arms and not much chest or shoulders as the added weight would slow me down. Ice baths after training also helps with keeping muscles lean and not bulking.

    Plata on the other hand said he doesn't weight train at all because he doesn't like it, like c'mon guys it's not rocket science train the right way there's no excuse to be saying something like that just ridiculous. They should all be training, taking supplements like amino acids, be on strict diets etc.

    I'm not sure but the feeling I get is some of these guys because they are young and because of their upbringing aren't putting in the extra work, I say some I think some are.

    Benzema recently talked about how he studied Ronaldo intensely at Real Madrid: "When I watched him, I tried to understand everything he did: the goals, the shots, the passes, the ball controI. "I dissected everything about Ronaldo."

    Do any of our attacking players have this type of mentality? Vinicius Jr. talked about how he recently hired his own personal chef and look how much he's improved. Attention to details like this, the extra work brings success. If anything it will boost your confidence and make you feel "deserving" of that success. You can have all the talent but if you aren't putting in the extra work both physically and also mentally it won't amount to much(duh).
     
  10. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    It's funny that you mention Vini Jr.'s chef. So at the team hotel in Ft. Lauderdale, I was talking to the team chef who explicity mentioned how these dudes aren't too keen on meal plans and don't really like the gourmet stuff - they stick to the Ecua foods (the leaner version), and to be honest, it's a bit of a worry.
     
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  11. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I like Sarmiento but he seems to be am amarra bolas he puts his head down and just wants to do it all himself he needs to know when to give the ball up. Hopefully he will keep improving he's still young.
     
  12. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Damn you were in the hotel talking to their chef how did you pull that off? lol good one.

    I noticed a lot of our guys look fatigued towards the end of games it's like they start to shut down both physically and mentally. This could be related to their diet. I mean some carbs are necessary for athletes but a lot of Ecua food is heavy on carbs. I'm no expert but ever since I cut out processed carbs/sugar and started taking BCAA and protein I noticed a significant difference in my physical and mental endurance. And this is only after 4 months I've also been intermittent fasting. Of course I'm an old dude so I have no choice but to eat healthier since I have a history of diabetes in my family.
     
  13. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    On an unrelated not I am now an Ecuadorian citizen I've been out here for over a year trying to get this done lol Now I can go home Probably soon I wonder if my vigor for soccer will maintain as I ease back into American culture? gonna be weird cuz I've only been watching soccer this whole time. Oh and no World Cup for me unfortunately I don't have it in me to travel for a whole day by plane I have enough trouble taking the bus to Guayaquil for a couple hours lol. Also I only was approved for the first 2 Ecua matches and I wanted at least 1 or 2 other matches not to mention the fan village or whatever is called looks like a concentration camp so no thanks lol
     
  14. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Someone pulled the fire alarm 30-40 mins before the team arrived, so the building had to clear out. He was needed in the kitchen but nobody was allowed in the building until the fire dept showed up. I just struck up a conversation with him. He has a tricky task ahead of him b/c his toughest work is balancing the good/lean diets with the localized preference of platano, yucca, etc., and those foods are HEAVY!. Really nice guy though.
     
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  15. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    How do you make a lean caldo de salchicha?

    lol
     
  16. Emelectric15

    Emelectric15 Member

    Emelec, LA Galaxy
    Ecuador
    Mar 13, 2005
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I don't know I never had Caldo de Salchicha but I don't think eating lean is that important if you are cutting out carbs and sugar. Your body can burn fat for energy it's called ketosis this is our natural state. Carbs and sugar are like a cheap drug that gives you the momentary boost but it's not natural and sustainable. An improper diet can result in this bi-polar type of energy output where the body runs out of sugar and carbs to burn and struggles to create energy because it hasn't reached ketosis. if you look at our ancestors they ate very little carbs and sugar they consumed meat, poultry, fish and mostly greens they only had few carbs from fruit and vegetables.
     
  17. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    lmao. I'm sure certain dishes are a straight up "pass" when it comes to meal planning...such as Guatita or a casuela.

    What I would give for a caldo de pata.
     
  18. \^the king^/

    \^the king^/ Member

    Jul 4, 2007
    wherevr da action @
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    HAHA! theres no way I wouldnt be filling myself up on llapingacho and mote con pernil if I was a pro coming in from Europe during Fifa Dates. no wonder I couldnt make it pro! LOL

    Luis Fernando Suarez just qualified Costa Rica to the WC - good for him. Technically his team has been the most successful version of Ecuador - really reaped the benefits of that Dusan revolution in process. Would love to see games of the Seleccion from Dusan all the way to Bolillo. I didnt notice there were so many in between.
     
  19. Primitive Ways

    Primitive Ways Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Florida
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Man, I need to lose some weight. I gained 30 lbs since the pandemic started and need to fix my diet too.
     
  20. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Same!

    I could definitely benefit from dropping 20lbs.
     
  21. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Gonzalo Plata has been linked to Leeds United. He's gonna have to gain some muscle mass if he wants to play in the Premier League and be successful. He'd benefit from adding 5-10 lbs of lean muscle mass. The added weight would help him handle the wear and tear better.

    Ecuador has some interesting young players that are currently part of the NT. There's also some young guys coming up. After the World Cup I think it'll be time to move on from Alfaro. Nothing against him personally. He's a great coach. I'm not sure other coaches would have led Ecuador to a world cup berth. Guillermo Almado would be the ideal man for the job. His teams play good futbol. He's familiar with Ecuadorian football. He knows how to deal with the press. He can take Ecuador to the next level.

    Campana is not a fast player. Nor does he jump high. He doesn't possess the athleticism that Jordy Caicedo has. He has good technique tho. And his positioning has improved. I don't think he's the long term answer at striker but be can be a useful players for years to come.

    More European scouts are looking at the Ecuadorian market. Nilson Angulo is the latest player to make move abroad. He's set to join Anderlecht. He's the second player to make the move to Belgium this summed (Valencia being the other). Idv and Liga are the ones making moves. It'll be interesting to see what's the state of Ecuadorian 5 years from now. If Ecuador's NT is successful a lot of that will be attributed to Idv and Liga and their focus on youth development.
     
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  22. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    To be fair, explosive speed does not need to be the key metric for success when looking at the striker position. I wouldn't consider Lewandowski, for example, to be an immensely fast target man, but his positioning and ability to strike with lethal accuracy make him truly world class. There's a big chasm between the elite strikers and the rest of the pack, so of course, we can't really compare, BUT speed isn't always the determining factor. At some point, it's just freakish talent and skill mastery in other athletic competencies that really add real value. To take advantage of a Campana or a Jordy, we'd have to adjust team tactics to really make them true target men. This is where I think our lineups and squad choice become so critical...we're not built to cater to these guys.

    A secondary issue that's been noted by some on the board in past conversations is around shooting. Our guys don't really take long shots anymore. I'm still scratching my head around this...why not?
     
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  23. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    There's no one on the squad that has a shot like Juan Cazares or Christian Noboa. Cifuentes actually has a good shot, probably the best on the team. I can't really think of another current player that is a real threat from distance. I think Moises can develop a good one if he puts in the work.
     
  24. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Liga de Quito
    Ecuador
    Nov 21, 2004
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    But even when there might be a good look, they don't take it. Cifuentes and Moises have great shots...Pervis does, too. They should be ready to at least TRY....it builds confidence. I think there's general skittishness around making a mistake and taking a risk. Plata has a great curling shot from the edges of the box, too.
     
  25. The Machine

    The Machine Member

    Oct 19, 2009
    Club:
    Emelec Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Plata does have a decent curling shot. I'd like to see him cut inside more and take a shot from distance. He has to keep defenses guessing. Good teams score in different ways. One worry I have is that the team can become too predictable.
     

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