US women soccer players want equal pay to US men's team.

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by SUDano, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada Soccer has proposed that men’s national team players would receive about 10 per cent of that $10 million payment, with the balance going to fund items including the organization’s administration costs, a proposed national training centre in Vaughan, Ont., and grassroots soccer initiatives, the sources said, adding that the men’s national team players have asked for about 40 per cent of the World Cup bonus to be split between 33 players.

    Shame US Soccer didn't think of that.

    The Canadian players are asking for 40% of prize money, which seems reasonable as many of them aren't playing at the top level.

    It shows just how greedy the American players are, or how stupid US Soccer is.

    The good news for the US is that sub-elite national team players in other qualified teams are looking at the US deal and asking why they can't have something similar.
     
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  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think ussf was stupid. They needed the equal pay issue to disappear. Even if it means both the men's and the womens teams are drastically overpaid.
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Or neither?

    On USSF's side it's a salary negotiation between the Federation, and some fairly strong unions. Those unions have strong support amongst the public, the US government, and guess what, the largest voting block of USSF that elects USSF leadership.

    Plus, the US teams have always been well paid precisely because they weren't getting good club salaries on either side -- it was either that or have people working part time or even quitting the sport. And it's hard to negotiate that away.

    Even without that, Canada and US are in largely different places. The US has much stronger revenues, and probably shouldn't be relying on World Cup bonuses to fund ANYTHING, given the uncertainty there. You don't want to be in a situation where you suddenly cut a bunch of grassroots programs because of Couva or something if you can help it. It's poorly funded per capita versus a lot of countries, but it's still got over $100M in annual revenue.

    The CSA is in a different place. Not a lot of revenues, really looking for this World Cup bid to fill some gaps in the budget. You understand why they are trying it, but it seems a low ball.

    As for the players, should they really be taking less moneyto fund USSF programs? I mean, I guess these guys largely don't need the cash, but I think calling them greedy means most people are greedy when they take a raise they don't absolutely need.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which unions represent the NT?

    The Athlete's Council gets 20% of the votes. Less than 20% of the athletes council play for the NTs.

    How many NT players have quit the sport over low pay in the last 20 years?


    Yes they absolutely should provide help funding the grass roots organizations that allowed them to get where they are today.
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Both the men and women have unions.

    The Athletes voted as a bloc in the last two elections and basically dictated the president of USSF. 20% of not, they've been effective in exercising power.

    And those athletes were very clear about these negotiations.

    A few, but not a ton. Which is my point? The higher pay that occurred was largely to prevent that -- so players could focus on the sport.

    Salaries are negotiated off prior salaries, and the US has paid well to avoid this. Now that the men have larger club salaries, this is a bit of a legacy. But it's hard to reduce salaries.

    They do. National teams drive most USSF revenue and player salaries are not eating up all the profits. The question is more how much goes to the players and how much to USSF's other work.

    Where is the line between greedy and simply getting paid is up to each of us. But let's not act like the players are taking all of the profits. Or we would not have gotten to an agreement.

    There's tons of people who financially benefit from soccer -- from USSF to FIFA to corporate sponsors and people who make clothing and jerseys and uniforms. I don't even know what the players "deserve" -- and I mean that quite literally. The context is even harder in this space. But I struggle to put the moral responsibility to fund, say, youth soccer on them and not everyone else.
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS, NWSL and USL have unions. The USMNT and USWNT do not.


    They voted with their employers.

    Ffs I'm not saying they should find the entirety of youth soccer.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ChrisSSBB repped this.
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yes, they do. Here's the men's: https://ussoccerplayers.com/about-the-usnstpa

    On the other points...

    I'm not saying you're saying they should have fund everything; I'm simply saying that with all these people making money off US Soccer, I'm not sure where the pay line is for them where they are "greedy" for wanting a certain amount of pay.

    In the Carlos Cordeiro election the players also didn't vote with their employers. The MLS votes originally went to Kathy something or other, the head of SUM. But when the players rallied behind Cordeiro, MLS shifted to support there as the other alternatives were largely openly anti-MLS.

    Cordeiro and Cone were both elected behind a strong voting bloc from the players.
     
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  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is incorrect, both the USMNT and the USWNT have unions.

    Indeed if you read the yahoo article about the deal, the USMNT union ED apparently is known for having a very low regard for USSF.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is who holds that 20% bloc

    Chris Ahrens (Chair)
    Oguchi Onyewu (Vice Chair)
    Lori Lindsay (Vice Chair)
    Lindsay Tarpley (Alternate)
    Nelson Akwari
    Danielle Slaton Abers
    Nicole Barnhart
    Carlos Bocanegra
    Sean Boyle (USOPC AAC Representative)
    Matt Freese
    Brad Guzan
    Kevin Hensley
    Smith Hunter
    Cobi Jones
    Ali Krieger
    Lori Lindsay
    Mikey López
    Nick Mayhugh
    Alex Morgan
    Oguchi Onyewu
    Nick Perera
    Brianna Pinto
    Becky Sauerbrunn
    Lindsay Tarpley
    Yael Averbuch West
    Megan Wharton
    Lynn Williams
     
  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure what this is in response to, as this has nothing to do with the unions of either the men’s or women’s national team.
     
  12. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    So disrespectful to Panama. You don't wear the official jersey, don't celebrate goals, or cover the logo or something creative but you act professional and respect the other team and fans... Any chance C'CAF will punish Canada here?

    Doubt if FIFA will get involved.
     
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  13. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But these are the people that had the 20% vote in the USSF Presidential election you claim was owned by the NT players.
     
  15. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never made such a claim. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Er..

     
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not what I wrote, you’re quoting a different person.
     
  18. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I also have that guy on ignore. Not interested in being provoked over nothing.
     
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  19. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    It’s now 33.3% per federal law.

    Cone had to be the one to spearhead the bylaw changes to make it happen, which is one (not particularly good) reason the state associations don’t like her.

    The other reason is that they feel Cone devotes too much of her energy and federation resources to the NTs.
     
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  20. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I really wanted any additional information. I respect your work. I did read your links, they helped me clarify a few points. I understand your hesitancy with Nate the Lawyer due to his advocacy. I went to Newhouse and can see through advocacy to still see validity in some points. I thought some of work was decent with some obvious flaws. He's one of the few that broke things down side by side with numbers and detailed benefits. I liked that format. I started the thread 6 years ago and loved how it covered the topic through group sourcing. Read every post and learned alot. Thanks again and good luck to you.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I wrote that, but I'm not sure what your point is listing out the names?

    The players voted as a bloc in the last two elections. Other groups, like the amateur orgs, did not. As such, the players exerted a lot of power, essentially picking the last two presidents. Cordeiro was forced to resign over the PR involved in the dispute with the women's team.

    Cone was elected in part on the promise to solve the labor issue, and she was supported heavily by the players to do so.

    I'm not sure I can spell out clearer. This isn't a case opposed viewpoints like say, UAW versus Ford or something. If UAW owned 20% (and as someone points out, now 33% by law!) of the shares of Ford, there'd be a difference in negotiations.
     
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  22. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Trouble on both sides now.
     
  23. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you're the Canadian women's team or any other countries women's team there's no reason not to ask for for the USWNT got. Not every team is going to be able to get it (though I think Canada will), but it's very much in their interest to push for it.

    What will be interesting to me are the federations who agreed to equal percentages and called it equal pay. I wonder how long those arrangements hold up.
     
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  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course they voted en bloc, they have to.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    No, they don't. At least not for President of USSF. At the Cordeiro election, it was a big deal that they all got together and decided to vote as a bloc. The amateur and youth associations, for example, don't have that solidarity.
     

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