The coming boom in multi-eligible player recruitment

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Worth noting that Moores call ups were after Araujo turned us down in the GC and WCQ windows.
     
  2. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
  3. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Sure, that's fair -- though my point was more that Berhalter gave Moore a chance and he took it and changed the depth chart in a meaningful way, which another choice might not have. (Of course, Scally's emergence has also been significant.) I'm not in Araujo's head but I doubt that he was like "Well, I can't compete with Shaq Moore, might as well switch" but rather, among other things, that he figured he had a better overall chance with Mexico.
     
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  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Gomez was called up to the USMNT and this thread is bogged down with a discussion about Aaron Herrera and Shaq Moore. All of you involved please give your head a shake.
     
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  5. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Literally this complaint covers one post since his callup was mentioned here.

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
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  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It was also a good excuse to get this discussion thats completely off topic to end.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Honestly, if Berhalter recruits both Pepi and Gomez to the US team, I'll feel like we absolutely got the best Mexican-American prospects of this generation.
     
  8. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I think most of us know (or come to know) we're here mostly because we enjoy the sound of our own voices but you've now posted twice about people not posting about Gomez rather than posting about Gomez. We know you know how to post about Gomez. Post about Gomez dude! It's Friday! Live large!
     
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  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know you rate him super highly and I'm very much looking forward to see how it goes. I imagine Bello will start the game, but hoping Gomez gets good run against Bosnia.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I tend to agree with Chuck's sentiment. When I talked to these Mexican-American kids YEARS AGO (haven't recently) at FCD, they said it was a truly difficult decision. They love both countries, and feel like they're letting important people down no matter which way they choose. Identity is a complex issue. But one can't deny that the Mexican-Americans that have chosen to play for the USMNT are actually playing with the USMNT. The opportunity being offered seems to be different. When Berhalter recruits these kids, its with the intent to use them.
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Just to drive home that point, see the quote below about Gomez. Berhalter's evaluating him to see if he's ready to contribute NOW. This isn't just a recruiting exercise.
     
  12. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Not cap tying. Domestic friendly. Happy, but not earth shattering. What does he have to lose? This is a new world and there is a looooonnngggggg way to go.
     
  13. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Greg taking a page out of the Mex Fed playbook. Sure we can use you now! At least we have Pepi to back it up. That matters I hope.
    When it comes to Mex dual Nats, especially ones who have grown up in the culture I will still take a long wait and see approach. I just know to many and know the pressure, culture and how they have grown up in it. It would be a huge coup. Would be a bugger surprise than Pepi IMO.
    Luchi needs to work some magic also. From all accounts he has that ability.
     
  14. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Isn’t Soto Chilean American?
     
  15. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Gomez! Gomez! Gomez!
     
  16. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Well, hopefully not as highly as Andrew Carleton or EPB.
     
  17. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I think it's American-born, Chilean father, Mexican mother.
     
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  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The USMNT has a much higher "retention rate" when it comes to Mexican-Americans from North Texas than from California. Culturally...................its a very different thing. There are youtube videos that describe it better than I ever can.

    I actually don't think it would be a bigger surprise than Pepi. Pepi is from El Paso, and his Mexico roots run very deep. El Paso is its own unique environment. I mean, Ricardo lived ON the border. His family was 100% pro-Mexico. He grew up idolizing Raul Jimenez (then at Club America), and to this day indicates Raul is his favorite player. If Ricardo hadn't gotten recruited up to the FCD academy in Frisco..........................I very much think he'd have followed a path similar to his FCD El Paso teammate Santiago Munoz. Just to give everyone an idea of FCD El Paso: Every day FCD coaches used to go pick up Santiago and other teammates at the Mexico border for training.

    Also, I wouldn't consider Gomez a bigger surprise than his FCD teammate Nico Carrera. A kid born in Mexico in Pachuca, who had played at the Pachuca academy, had played for Mexican YNTs first...................and now seems 100% pro-USMNT.

    Jonathan Gomez was born in North Richland Hills for Christ's sake. North Richland Hills!! [I realize that's a sorta joke that only people from Texas will chuckle at.]
     
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  19. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    I also believe these kids are more savvy. As the US improves it will be easier to play for us. Pepi saw the gaping hole at forward and took it. We don’t have gaping hole at left bak anymore, but it sure is a winnable spot. I know quite a bit about TexMex history and that is a very good point. Something I should have kept in mind, and clearly did not Thanks for that. Cali certainly is a different animal. I just don’t count on anything, or even get my hopes to high in situations like this. I do have faith at this point that if GB is willing to put an 18 year old on the field for the US in a match that matters they really have something. He has been very good about that. We’ll see what happens of course. I’m very much agree with your train of thought. Win the big battles. Quality over quantity. If we don’t on to the next guy. This isn’t even 10 years ago. We have players.
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. We can't provide opportunities for EVERYBODY, regardless of dual-national citizenship status. We just have to do our best to scout, identify, and recruit the kids we think have the highest ceilings.

    I personally think we could have locked up Gomez YEARS ago. He played with our U16 team, went to go check out Mexico's U16 team................but then came back to train with our U17 team. He got 3 caps with our U17s, but didn't end up being selected for the U17 CONCACAF Championships or U17 World Cup. Then we didn't have a U20 cycle. So........................the door to Mexico has been worryingly ajar for years.

    There were those on this board in 2019 that thought he should have been named to those U17 squads. I remember @ussoccer97531 being one of them. Its not like Jonathan Gomez was playing anonymously in Waco. He was playing for one of the best academies in the country, and in 2019 was in the North Texas squad. So he was getting some game time in the USL already.
     
  21. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    At that age, as you know it’s hard to predict. The U17’s aren’t the best place to do that either. Hell, I recall a couple of folks early in the last cycle not thinking much of Reyna. The first time I saw him play I was sure he would be a top 5 Euro impact player one day. Busio was considered one of the best prospects on the team by many. I thought he would fade into typical U17 star hype obscurity as he got older. Ha! I very rarely have strong opinions at that level and those two showed me again why I shouldn’t. Of course, if I want to be social media I would pat myself on the back, and crow for being so smart about Reyna, and just ignore anything I ever posted about Busio.;)

    It must be said, while dual Nat hysteria/anxiety has always been alive and well, the guy who has taken it to the next level is Tata Martino. Respecting MLS players, having the will to use and recruit them. A more old school Mex coach probably would not have done that. Tata you jerk.:p He has forced us to up our game, which is fine by me.

    Hell, we need to get rid of MLS territories now. It’s time. Make people up their game. All of these things will make us stronger overall, but we still have to overcome some bumps.

    I saw Gomez a few times in Louisville. Looked good. Playing against men is always a good indicator of skill, thought and mentality. There are clearly tools there no doubt. Here’s hoping we land him and he is what some think he is.
    Parades interests me more in a lot of ways. He looks like a guy who can make a difference. Time will tell! I’ll take both!
     
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  22. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes, an early provisional cap-tie can work against you. For example, Jonathan Gonzalez was cap-tied with a 22 minute U20 appearance against St. Kitts with no other competitive appearances for the US. For him to even consider Mexico, he had to make a one-time switch. If that wasn't the case, he might have taken a test drive with Mexico and then decided where he wanted to be. He didn't really have that option.

    Ultimately, he ended up being out of the running for both teams, though he might have had a better chance with the USMNT of that period than really getting an opportunity to qualify for Russia with Mexico.

    I don't blame the coaches for the cap & he undoubtedly wanted to play, but the cap-tie forced his hand (and meant he couldn't take advantage of the recent rule changes because he moved on a switch if he were to break out again without El Tri interest).

    Leaving players as "free agents" makes sense when a player isn't an above-average talent at the time.
     
  23. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    That’s the money quote.

    I would even say “a top level” talent.
     
  24. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe, but you have to field a quality team & some guys are going get provisionally cap-tied who aren't gonna cut it at the next level. If someone is a regular starter, you shouldn't hold back playing them.
     
  25. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    The bottom line for me is that if your evaluations of player quality and potential are perfect by the time they turn 16, the rest of this more or less takes care of itself. Easy peasy!
     
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