Having watched the game (assuming it's representative), I saw no threat or likelihood of Sargent scoring absent a cross or free kick accidentally landing on his head or something. Josh is perfectly acceptable in the hold-up game, works on defense, tries to combine with his midfield, etc. But there was no bite in his game. He didn't seem like he could or would turn past a defender, beat anyone on the dribble, or get past a defender to receive a through pass. Given that he seems to gather and knock back to his midfield, at most, I can see why the midfield says "well if you aren't going to do anything, I might as well shoot from 25 yards out."
I'm not even saying you're wrong (except Jozy didn't get relegated with Sunderland). It's your delivery - prefacing your statement suggesting you're the only one capable of seeing things how they are. That said I wouldn't say Sarge is useless, although he wasn't very good yesterday. Still, the whole team wasn't.
This is bad for his development. These are young guys. A lot is about form, and much of form is mentality. Sarge at Bremen could still be useful for the NT. Sarge at Nor'ich is getting to the point where he won't be. I feel psych factors are hugely overlooked. Take West, who was big for the NT when he was trying to prove a point in a terrible team, but now that he's "made it" seems to have allowed it to go to his head.
That, and the relentless negativity. Sometimes - very often, actually - I wonder if he isn't actually a visitor from one of the Mexican MNT forums.
Sargent doesnt have the instincts for battling along the front line as a 9. I've said all along that he is a good right forward because he can work with fullbacks, cf's, midfielders if he starts with some space. When he tries to play cf himself, he ends up glued to the cb's. Even when in possession, Sarge could wait for cb's to turn their heads then just stop to open some space but he seems glued to the cb's as if he wants to make life easy for them. Originally I thought a 2 cf formation, as in a 442, say, would suit Sarge but I think he needs to play rf/lf in a 3421 type formation in which case we will see him help out more in defensive end, too. I noticed he came all the way back into his own box to help recover the ball for Norwich which is fine if there is somebody else forward Since Rashica has the best speed/dribble to goal, putatively, why not use him to stretch the pitch vertically and use the williams kid, who looks pretty good, to stretch things wide from the wingback position -----------------rashica -------pukki--------------sarge ---x----------x---------x-------x etc I mean, something's gotta give, rite?
Thats not a fair take. He has "argued" very reasonably on a lot of Points. I think the Bigger issue is that a lot of people were hell bent on defending Särgent as Our usmnt cf. Instead of recognizing they were Wrong, they prefer to attack the messenger. How very American of US.
The basic problem with people in the USA is radicalism. In everything: politics, religion, even mathematics. "If you're not 100% with me, you're 100% against me." That could be the motto of the country at this point in history --and one of the reasons it's a lot more reasonable to be an expat. Here even with Sargent we got that: some here just don't like the guy, and are hell-bent on painting him as a lousy player. Some others love him, and will not tolerate any criticism of him. So when someone like me comes and says, "he is a decent player who is playing like crap right now," both sides hate me.
Nice troll comment....... I would call you an idiot savant, but I would only be 1/2 right. Hey sorry I have a life, traveled 14 hours to get to Sao Paulo and lots of work to prepare for this week. And had a great time with my girlfriend since then, boom chik-a boom....and boom again...I guess I'm scoring more than Josh lately. IMO, you are the worst type value of a poster on Big Soccer- negative value- because everything is a quick, pithy take with no context....and "I told you so (game by game take)", ignoring all contextual elements of argument. You seem fascinated with Sargent and pounding him when he's had (what 2 starts, one with a hammy problem) for his new club. I can't even call your arguments an aggrandizement, since you never attempt to make a coherent argument. Just stream of constant negativity here. Where your efforts particularly fail: We can literally (and easily) construct a plausible negative individual career scenario for virtually every single top USMNT player in Yanks Abroad! Pulisic (injuries, indifferent form, less impactful than previous USMNT, sometimes attitude, coaching situation), McKennie (technical skills, off the field, etc), Reyna (only small glimpes of his potential since his big breakout Feb- September 2020- mostly eh? performances for 12 months), your boy Hoppe (In his last 16 or so games, 1 GOAL only- read that again! and didn't even start this weekend), Dest (defender who can't seem to defend very well- oops)...the argument can continue and there is glass half full arguments for all these kids and some of them won't make it. I guess Aaronson is great since he seems a real sparkplug....oh yeah also, its real logical to compare playing the competition in Austria Bundesliga to the top 4 leagues. All those Austrian BL players can easily make the transition (eye roll) You can take any multi-game stretch of virtual any Yank Abroad player and argue they are on a downslope, can't seem to get over hump, etc etc. in almost any season. Guess what? This is simply the uninterrupted history of American soccer players in Europe since the beginning of time! Take our 2 most successful US soccer players of all-time (Donavon and Dempsey)- both of whom had huge stretches in their careers and even full seasons in which one could reasonably argue (if they had blinders on) that these players had peaked, were capped in growth, not ready for next level, never make it or were inadequately skilled. Do we have to cue the Landon stinks up German and runs back to SJ with tail between legs around Josh's age or Dempsey was in college at 21 and all his struggles at Fulham arguments? How about McBride being criticized, scrutinized at the beginning of his Fulham tenure for not scoring enough.....and he a full decade OLDER than Josh! (and Fulham was a bottom table club when McBride got there also) But the reality was (at the time) that their futures were big unknowns (too many variables) and their futures only became known later and in retrospect. I have no issue with criticism's of Josh or any other player's individual game- obviously there are flaws, things to work on. Never said he's the finished product. Never said he can't do better in important parts of his game...there are good posters who make the effort to be balanced and objective with context But for the good of the thread- in the future, put a little work & logic & historic + other context in, or most of us have to work this week with blood coming out of our ears from your quips. Otherwise you are another child in the backseat needing to pee 'are we there yet, are we there yet'? annoying the hell out of the adults in the room who are trying to enjoy being here.
If the criticism is "he needs to be more aggressive, take more shots, dribble guys more" sure, that is a fair comment for sure. Then sit back and see if he does. If the criticism is "he's garbage, he's peaked, we 'know this story, seen it before"...that nonsense or pure speculation. Maybe a broken clock can be right, but the most logical stance is 'we just don't know' where this story goes- predicting the vast majority of players careers at 21 is a fool's game and error ridden exercise.
If a group of people complain about your behavior, always assume that they're wrong and attack their entire nationality. Obviously, you're doing everything perfectly. Never, ever, look in the mirror.
The criticism right now is that he's just not placing himself in a position to be involved in goal-creating chances. That was not his problem a year ago in Bremen. At some point he seemed to "lose" it, and we assumed it was due to the manager. Now he's in a different club, with a different manager, and his positioning remains poor. So it may be the other way around: that time he was doing it well, he was getting micro-managed the correct way.
When a country is merrily rushing to a civil war, it's hard to make the point that the majority of its people are reasonable.
This guy totally gets laid! And he’s impressed all of us with that fact! Your discussions of other players have nothing to do with Josh whatsoever.
Just put him on ignore. That’s what I did and I’m happier for it. And by the by, this thread might become tolerable if jazzy and golazo put each other on ignore too. Or take their Frank Gorshin on Star Trek act to pms.
There is no reason Sarge couldn't have a McBride career, but a McBride career without - 1) McBride's looks and personality - and leadership ability 2) McBride's MLS/USMNT production and the rarity of being from the US is a fairly middling top-tier career. No shame in it at all, but absent the "unique story" around it - if, say, McBride were a low-key, publicity shy guy from, I dunno, Brazil or France, who was known for stats alone, he'd be relatively unremarked in the pantheon of EPL players. Sarge will have to produce more than McBride, play on a much more competitive team than Fulham, become more of a leader and/or make a big mark as an international to cast as big a shadow.
A few key points from this mess of a discussion? 1. He doesn't seem to have any one single quality that frightens at the top level. He doesn't have crazy size like Ibra. He's not super fast like Mbappe. He's okay technically, but not a god like RVP. I actually agree with all of this. There's no one area where he's insanely talented. However... 2. He's a young forward, and forward is really an older man's position. Short of the generational talents like Haaland, it's rare to see a young 9 really thrive in an elite top flight. Too big an ask against the best defenders in the world. Sargent will probably improve considerably over the next 4-5 years. 3. Even if he maxes out as a rotational level player in a major league, that's still going to make him a useful piece for the NT. Bedoya (different style, but similar level?) got 66 caps for the USA. Not everyone is going to be Clint or Landon. There's an argument that NT is going to be a lot tougher to get into over the next few years. There are so many bodies for spots across the front three: Dike, Pulisic, Aaronson, Konrad, Hoppe, Cowell, Weah, Pepi, Reyna, etc. Maybe the Bedoya level is not going to be enough anymore in the next few cycles, but presumably he can fall short of "starting caliber forward in the EPL" and still have utility for the NT. My thinking is that this will be a tough, but educational season for him. If Norwich drop, it may be time to do the Jozy thing and go be a big fish in a smaller pond, maybe for a team like Celtic, Rangers, Anderlecht, Besiktas, or Salzburg. Then he can play a lot, bag a bunch of goals, and put himself on the radar for a move into a friendlier situation in a top 4-5 league where it's not a relegation battle all the time.
I tend to think that there are players who get regular USMNT playing time and periodic starts for the national team whose every offensive and defensive skill, and relevant physical attribute, is less than or equal to Sarge’s. But they play in the midfield rather than the forward spot. I don’t know if he would be amenable to moving back, but it would seem a good fit. Watching him track back from the wing at Bremen last year (and a few times this year), stick in on D, and progress the attack from deep after a turnover, etc., is one basis for that impression. His passing and vision are good, his speed is better than some people on this thread think it is. And I think his tactical acumen (positional awareness) is also quite good. What he doesn’t do well enough for a forward is finish (anymore). If he stays upfront, we can only hope that that will change.
So many OTHER examples of OTHER young striking talents like this we can draw upon (to understand the context and difficulty for Josh): From 21 years old to 23 years old: 2 goals in 33 games at a UNNAMED TOP CLUB. From a player who was mostly considered 'can't miss' top 4 league, top team quality striking talent at 21 years old........certainly higher rated than Josh at the same age (note: Josh is still only 21 1/2 years old) The player: "I've thought a lot about why it went wrong. The first season I had to adapt and it didn't go well compared to my time at PREVIOUS 2ND TIER LEAGUE CLUB. "I lost a bit of confidence and I lost the confidence of FAMOUS COACH and his staff." MY COMMENTS: So this guy was a washout right? Career peaked. Would never find form? Shocker: took an entire season to adapt during age 21-22....even though this young talent was considered one of the best young striking talents in Europe! At 23 year's old- once considered one of the world's top young striking talents- sold for nearly same sale price as Josh at 21 (factoring in COVID-discounted market) and landed at 23 in a LEAGUE OUTSIDE THE TOP 4! Washout. Done. Peaked...on a WORSE trajectory than Josh at 23... Update to now: He is now considered one of the top 15-20 (and some lists close to #10) strikers in the world. But, but....how can this be? And it is not Andre Silva ============================================= I agree (and have agreed) that Josh needs to be more clinical, try a bit unorthodoxy, dribble some guys, find his 'inner' killer. Like puberty, this 'happens when it happens'. He's 21 fellows! This is like wondering why your 12 year old boy doesn't have facial hair yet. But ok- let's just play the negative game and consider Josh a washout at 21. So let's move onto our other top US strikers, and see where they are at- the best that we have! Who has not scored in 270 club minutes for their club? Not Josh... that's Ricardo Pepi! Is he playing ANYWHERE near Premiership caliber defenses? No....so what's Pepi's deal? Should we worry....oh he's lost it?? Who has scored only 1 goal in the last 16 games for his club....Not Josh... that's Matthew Hoppe! Should we be worried? He didn't start this weekend... The club numbers look a bit better for Dike, something like 4 goals in last 10 games....but those goals were against MLS & English Championship clubs....so if that is the case- why don't we count Josh's 4 goals against Duesseldorf and Bournemouth when he played in his last 2 games against weaker competition. What's the difference? Pefok? Not exactly on the fast train to the top. Couldn't stick at a top 5 league and Switzerland really weak in Euro coefficients. Wright started strong in Turkey..no goals last 2 games. Where does that story wind up? He's a good 2 years older than Josh and playing in a significantly weaker league So there are negative scenarios for ALL of our US strikers at the moment. You can plausibly argue this. So we are going to 'rag' on this US striker that (arguably) as good as any striker we ever had at this age? Earth to thread: We aren't Brazil. We aren't even Slovakia when it comes to producing strikers. Blame USSF/MLS for their putrid performance. But don't blame the best we currently have. They are going through striker puberty on their own, with their own tools- largely NOT developed by our American system. Probably stunted by it. But here's the bright side: - Norwich should learn to jell better as a team (this would make sense) - Norwich should score more goals against the next 6 teams (as versus the last 6) - Norwich still has 14+ games to play against the weakest defenses (based on 1st 6 games) in the Prem. Higher % odds that Josh can score. - Josh likely will play as many minutes (barring injury) going forward as he did the last 6 games. Finally, in the rear view mirror, yes Josh did not play great against Everton. No doubt about it. But anyone who follows football knows that when Rafa gets his team's organized and on their day- he is a difficult side to score against. Norwich has at least 14 games remaining against teams who are (basically) in the bottom half of defenses in the Prem. That's a lot of games against weaker competition left, and at a time in which Norwich will likely be a bit better than today and better than 50/50 odds that Josh will be playing MORE minutes and not less. So Freisland, I believe had Josh at 4-5 goals for the season (for it to be a decent start) and I will actually take the over- but 4-5 is not bad given the context in which Josh plays (quality of league, quality of surrounding teammates & chances and fact that Josh doesn't get to play AGAINST Norwich) As economists know, you have to contextualize data and you can not draw valid assumptions by lumping sets of data with different parameters, but also by looking at the data in much smaller bits (as some posters love to do here). There is ample, logical data in this situation to just say 'hold your horses and WAIT' Finally, the (unnamed) poster challenged me directly as to why I wasn't on the thread and asked me what I was doing while Josh was playing. I consider you all friends so I told you straight up why I didn't respond on a more timely basis. Sorry if mentioning the most natural function known to man offends. Let's get back to offending and defending our boys in RED, WHITE & BLUE. While these kids are under 25, I will continue to play the long game with their career, and see the glass as 1/2 full. It is an entirely different conversation and different expectations 5 years from now. I find it very interesting that long-term followers of Norwich view Josh with more optimism and more patience than posters here. They didn't expect immediate results and understand there would be an adjustment period. They have been following the Prem/Championship for many years and are more patient, and more savvy than here. Seen a lot of strikers come and go- and yet few hastily draw conclusions on the Norwich boards. Maybe a few posters here could learn from their approach?