At least here, we are expected to run over to the bench and inform the coach of the reason for a caution in a face to face message. For the most part I have not had any confrontation with that, I even had a coach start telling me as I am walking up to him "yes, I know, I know, totally clear" Always.
So which part is insufficient? Telling a coach it’s for Unsporting conduct is the answer. Nothing beyond that is required or needed. If the coach can’t be bothered to pay enough attention to the game as to have an inkling of why the card was issued that’s not on the referee. You know like in a classroom, if you don’t pay attention you don’t get to learn the answer.
I would ask the assessor, but it's the same assessor that will give me a 15 minute talk about how important it is to wear black shoes and make all the required signals and other ballet moves when making calls, that I am not sure that it is worth it.
In Iowa, we don’t provide an explanation. We inform, not discuss. Number, color, official reason (USB, dissent, etc.). We are instructed to inform in a way that doesn’t invite a “discussion” (I.e. an argument). If I have to run across a football field, I don’t get closer than the football numbers closest to the bench.
Is the whole reason for explaining cards because NFHS is “an extension of the classroom.” This way coaches can “teach” the players? I don’t think I’ve said more than something like “#5 yellow for unsporting behavior.”
I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve informed a coach after a card. And those have all been “what was that can you please explain?” meetings and not contentious. It’s never come up as a point of emphasis in any training our state has ever provided.
After six years of USSF, this past spring was my first doing NFHS. So informing coaches of cards was a habit I had a hard time getting into. My first one (dual) my partner had to remind me the player had to come off and the coach had to be informed. The coach just put up his hand and said "I saw it." The second was to the coach for no shinguards. Obviously I informed the coach because he was the one I showed the card to. The third was for dissent. I completely forgot to inform the coach and my dual partner didn't remind me. The fourth and fifth was for two opponents who started swinging at each other. They didn't connect. I started with red but my dual partner (association president) shouted "Yellow, yellow." We showed yellow, one to each, but neither one of us informed the coaches. He said after the game it wasn't necessary and I flat forgot.
It's been a long time since a coach tried to offer me a dissenting opinion on a card. Physically, I have found it necessary more than once to start moving towards the benches to get the player to start leaving also. Some don't know and some don't wanna. By rule, 5.3.1.e and f just say "notify both coaches...of the nature of the misconduct." An assessor who wants you to give the coach the War & Peace version of what happened is making stuff up. I was AR1 once on a boys varsity game, with a quite experienced visiting coach. The referee stopped play and cautioned one of the visiting team's players. This was right near the bench anyway. "Persistent infringement, coach." "What?" "PERSISTENT INFRINGEMENT." "What's that?" "Too many fouls, coach." "Ohhhhh!." Now if you really want to be snarky, you could just say "Number 8, caution, 12 point 8 point 1 f." "What?" "Look it up, coach."
So many questions I would love to ask that person. Edit: next time stick with your gut and don’t let perceived positions of power influence you.
The background to this is that much of our NFHS soccer officiating hierarchy comes from a "officiates multiple high school sports" background than a purely soccer background. Basketball refs are more used to having a discussion with a coach after a technical foul. Also, until recently my state had a "cooling off period" where if you received a yellow card you didn't just leave the game to re-enter, you had a mandated 10 minute stint on the bench. Because of that, upon issuing a card, you had to come over to the bench area, confirm the official time with the timekeeper/scorekeeper, give the updates to the coaches, etc. The "cooling off period" is gone (and now card accumulation is a thing), but the expectation among many coaches and administrators is still that the discussion happen.
I think my initial statement made it sound harsher than it is- I don't really card coaches often except for equipment stuff, mostly because they are reasonable people in high school. 90% of the time coaches are fine with the card given, maybe a "they just did the same thing" grumble or two. I can remember four cards to coaches for dissent etc in the last five years. Two of them were when they chose to escalate an explanation of a card to a player.
Heh. I card HS coaches a lot. Coach is yelling something at me (not his/her players). Doesn't matter what. Wait for a stoppage. Stop the clock. Jog over. Stand next to the coach, leaned forward a little, in a low voice (verbal judo). "What's the problem, coach?" <yap yap yap>. "Ok, coach, here's what I saw from my angle, and why that's not what you're asking for. And, this is High School. We can't allow this behavior in High School Sports. We're setting an example, remember. Now, I need to caution you for that dissent, so let's not get another one today, OK, coach? Thanks." As I'm backing away onto the field, I show the yellow card. Pretty soon, word gets around, and the coaches stop yelling at the refs, at least when I'm on the game. At the very least, they stop yelling in that game. I have yet to give a second caution to a coach for dissent. A couple of falls ago, doing a game where the coach is a notorious yeller at the refs. The players are yapping at me. "Coach, tell your players that their job is to play, and your job is to yell at me." "But <RefGil>, if I do that, you'll card me." "Exactly".
I actually like it. It gives me a chance to get on the same page with the coach. 1/4 of the time, I can get an "OK" wave from across the field, after I catch his eye and point or pantomime. !/4 of the time, if I am nearby, I ask "You saw that, right,?" "Yeah", often with eyeroll at his player. 1/4 of the time they actually need an explanation becaue they didn't really see it. 1/4 of the time I get minor pushback, like "what about that foul over there?" "Coach, that was just a foul. Your guy put some extra into it.." [conversation over] This all goes easier after you have mastered the phrase, "Reckless charge."
So, I know I've posted this one before, but I'm 4th for a USL Pro game. Home coach, whom I've sent off when he was coaching U-17 boys, 'engages' with me over something the referee has done or not done. Suddenly, his assistant coach, a 30-something twerp, sitting on the bench, starts complaining about the same decision. I turned to the guy on the bench, pointed at the head coach and said, "HE can yell at me. YOU can't!" The head coach, with his back to his assistant, gets a little smirk on his face and quietly says something like "But he has a point." I agreed and that was the end of the conversation. Two for one. Not a card, but a high school girls "varsity" game. I put 'varsity in quotes because this was two very, very low skill teams in the largest schools classification. The home coach is a much bigger guy than me with whom I've had confrontations with in the men's league. Dual and I'm R1. We're about 60 seconds into the game and I have to give a penalty kick against his team. He, in a classic example of jayhonk's third possibility, had been talking to a bench player and didn't see what happened. He's all "WHAT???" I went and stood next to him, facing the field. "[first name], the ball hit your defender in the hand. I got no problem with that part but then she scooped the ball over the goal line." "Oh, God," with a roll of the head for emphasis. Seeing his enormous patience with his players in that game completely changed my opinion of him. And, after the game, my oblivious R2, comes over to me to shake hands and says, "Good working with you. Maybe sometime we can do a varsity game together." No, he was not being sarcastic, either. He just assumed this was JV, based on the level of play. A few weeks later, I did them again, against the league's other super low skill team. The third team scored on a slow roller that the keeper could have easily saved if she'd just moved her feet instead of standing there, rooted to the spot. The scoring team then did the 'shoe shine' routine. I almost laughed out loud. I think it may have been the only goal they scored that year.
I have noticed that there are two types of officials for high school soccer games. There are USSF officials who also happen to do NFHS games and there are high school officials who happen to officiate soccer as one of their sports. Most of the time, I have noticed that high school sports officials try to apply the logic of their other sports to soccer. For example, I have seen high school sports officials who have a strict six second count with the goalkeeper handling the ball. They say, "It says 6 seconds in the book!" Luckily, this is not universal. There are some good high school officials who do a good job with soccer games. My real pet peeve is when you have high school officials who also do either basketball or volleyball and run with the whistle in their mouths!
I don’t have an NFHS book in front of me, so I have a question… When under NFHS rules does this misconduct occur? My recollection is that if you stop play to issue a card, the restart is an indirect free kick to the opponent. So, if the misconduct occurs while the ball is in play (is that at the time that the free kick is taken?), you stop play, issue the card, and restart with a indirect free kick to the opponent.
[QUOTE="voiceoflg, post: 39817319, member: 72537" The fourth and fifth was for two opponents who started swinging at each other. They didn't connect. I started with red but my dual partner (association president) shouted "Yellow, yellow." We showed yellow, one to each, but neither one of us informed the coaches. He said after the game it wasn't necessary and I flat forgot.[/QUOTE] I have a hard time understanding why that would only be yellow. Pretty sure that striking or attempting to strike is a red card. You don’t get a break for a swing and a miss.
An excellent question. Under 13.3.1, "Where three or more defending team players form a wall, all attacking team players must remain at least 1 yard from the wall until the ball is in play. PENALTY: An official shall caution a player who fails to move the require distance away from the ball, the defensive wall when three or more defenders are in the wall...." By the letter of the rule, then, an attacking player shall be cautioned if they are not at least a yard away from a three player wall at any time between the awarding of the free kick and the taking of the free kick. Now over here, in the real world, a wall has to be formed with three or more defenders. If the wall is only, say, two, then the attacker(s) cannot be cautioned, at least not until there is a third defender in the wall. So, if there's a two player wall, an attacker joins the wall, that's okay UNTIL a third defender joins the wall, perhaps at the other end of the wall. The attacker is now required to instantly leave the wall or be cautioned. That means that this is a wonderful opportunity for the referee to use good judgment and good player management skills. So now imagine this situation: Attacker joins a wall of three defenders. The referee cautions that player and sends them to the bench (and notifies the coaches). The attacking team subs for that player. The sub goes straight to the wall. They are now cautioned, before play is restarted and they get to return to the bench!
Boy, oh boy, I will admit, I called this in a U19M SCCL game. Once. No one was expecting it. They had been warned. But who actually calls it? I did. That game. In the 57th minute. Luckily nothing came of it... It's been 10 months and I _still_ get embarrassed about it.
The book also says that the opponent can’t interfere with the goalkeeper’s distribution of the ball. I wouldn’t start counting if there are opponents in the penalty area near the keeper. I want them moving away… If I do start counting, it’s a slow 6 count, with a ‘come on keep’ at about 4.
I usually yell the line "hey keep that free kick isn't going to be worth the 4 seconds wasted" and it seems to get the desired effect most of the time.
That’s not how it works. The keeper can go somewhere to distribute the ball inside the area that’s free of opponents. Your job is to allow them to attempt to distribute the ball within the legal timeframe and punish anyone that interferes. But the keeper can’t refuse to release the ball because there are opponents nearby.