The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I just don’t buy the argument that a crappy team in last place in a niche league in a big market is all that desirable to the broadcasters vs. expanding the national appeal of the league.
    Besides, the biggest cities are probably the least likely to get relegated.
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a reason I used Chicago in my example and not LA/NY. There's nothing about the way Chicago has been run recently that suggests they wouldn't be relegated. It is unlikely to lose both NY or LA teams though, I agree.
     
    Chesco United repped this.
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Galaxy won the wooden spoon a could of years ago didn't they?

    Chicago has assembled a top class announcing team.
     
  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    We don't know how the league would end up in any given season if there were relegation as that makes a huge difference to incentives - or lack thereof - at the bottom of the table compared to what happens in a closed league.
     
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  5. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Exactly. You can’t apply results from the current league model to a completely different competitive environment. Setting aside the natural rise in stakes, you’d expect budgets to work very differently.

    That the Galaxy finished last once isn’t predictive of anything.
     
  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Well, I figured. But I guess I would question how much engagement a perennially moribund franchise gets in a big city vs the exposure in new markets gained by promotion.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you can assume that the excitement and passion you see in English football is the norm, or that you can assume American fans will behave in a particular way.
     
    Chesco United and jaykoz3 repped this.
  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I’m not sure what this means. Are you saying that Louisville or Sacramento or Albuquerque wouldn’t get invested if they were promoted to MLS? Or are you worried that Chicagoans wouldn’t be engaged with a shitty Fire team? Because buddy, I hate to break it to you, but…
     
  9. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That doesn't matter. Grant posting about the Media networks pushing for it makes zero sense in America. Especially in a Covid/Post-Covid World. With promotion and relegation....there's too much risk for the networks. The demand for it in the US simply is not there.

    Outside of the hard core soccer/football nerd fan set which is a small minority of fans, the majority aren't interested.

    Sports in the US are just organized differently. People need to get over the fact that this just isn't changing in our lifetimes.
     
  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Let me ask you: what does the soccer fan in Omaha or Greenville or Albuquerque find compelling about San Jose or Vancouver?
    What does COVID have to do with it?

    How much value do the Pirates, Panthers, or Lions bring to MLB, NHL, and NFL, respectively, that a successful team not currently in those leagues wouldn’t offer? I realize you’re not going to change those leagues, but do broadcasters really think a perennially shitty team is the best use of their media rights?

    There’s honestly very little risk for the broadcasters: yes, occasionally a small market may replace a Houston, but far more likely you’re getting San Diegos, Phoenixes, Indianapolises, Oklahoma Cities, Raleighs, etc. You are literally adding by subtracting poorly managed teams.
     
  11. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Yeah, tradition counts. I've followed my local NHL team pretty much my whole life, but if the system changed overnight and they were suddenly moved to a lower league because of one bad season I'd probably just stop watching and replace that hobby with something else.
     
  12. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Really? Why?
     
  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The main difference in the US is that people are mostly fans of their city's teams, not a specific team. They follow multiple sports, and there are a bunch of sports going on at any different time. If there were pro/rel, fans of a relegated team wouldn't really be changing allegiance per se -- they'd be paying more attention to other teams they already support. It would be more a matter of "out of sight, out of mind."
     
  14. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *given, not different. My phone's autocorrect is terrible lately.
     
  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're saying Football and basketball fans in Omaha, Albuquerque amd Greenville find nothing compelling about the Falcons, Cardinals, Suns, Hawks, etc?

    The Pirates, Panthers and Lions still sell tickets to games right? In the cases of the Panthers and Pirates they still have lucrative local TV deals right? They still bring in new fans and eyeballs to their respective leagues right? The Lions still draw huge ratings in the Detroit metro area right? Could the cities you mentioned do all of that? On the same scale?

    What does COVID have to do with it??? Really??? Are you serious with this question??? Have you not seen networks cancelling shows, cutting back staffs, cutting costs, etc??? The networks aren't going to throw potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to broadcast a soccer match between Greenville and Alburquerque!!! They aren't going to risk that money and potentially have a league devoid of Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston (new england), etc.

    What do those cities add for Broadcasters? There's more risk there then you want to believe. You're also assuming that the Indianpolises, Oklahoma Cities, Ralieghs, etc, are better managed then the teams they would potentially be replacing.
     
  16. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I wouldn’t want to abandon decades’ worth of competitive tradition in favor of starting over in a minor league.
     
  17. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Works fine for me. I'm happy with the current arrangement and don't see any need to mess with it. YMMV.
    I expect that if the owners thought that pro/rel would increase the value of their clubs, MLS would institute it pretty quickly.

    And broadcasters want some certainty as to what they're paying for. Are they really going to want to take the risk of, say, not having any teams from New York in MLS after a bad year for the Red Bulls and NYCFC?

    I don't see broadcasters clamoring for a system that gives Akron FC a chance to replace LAFC in MLS.
     
  18. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In most major cities, sports fans have options on how to spend their sports entertainment budget. Fans from major-league cities don't really have a tradition of supporting minor-league teams, either.

    Faced with the choice of spending time and money on a relegated DC United team versus a competitive Nationals or Capitals, it'd be tough to justify going to United games.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  19. So in reality the city is the brand, and the bigger the city, the bigger financially the brand.
    Add to that a big cty with very good traffic connections to the region and the city brand becomes even bigger.
    Mls should pay for the privilige to play in a top brand city.
     
  20. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    On their own, it doesn't make any sense for the owners to implement it, that's his point about the broadcasters. There's no financial incentive for the owners to change anything.

    I don't want to get too far into the weeds with the legitimacy or lack thereof of the offer, but imagine if Riccardo Silva's media rights deal was made in good faith, it would have been worth over 4 times what MLS's current deal is.

    So what Wahl is saying is would the engaged and active owners take the risk to increase their media revenues 400%? Who would be opposed to this deal and why and would this be an opportunity to get rid of the Kroenkes of the league?
    So I don't really buy into this argument much on face value. A relegation-worthy LAFC team isn't going to be much of a draw, either.

    I also just don't see this horror scenario where all of the teams from our major cities are replaced by Single-A level markets.

    Broadcasters have uncertainty all of the time in what they pay for: NCAA tournament; BCS national championship; any major league playoffs; the World Cup; etc.
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    When my team has been relegated, I didn't see it as "starting over" at all. I've seen it as our performances not justifying a place in the higher league and a need to up our game to recover our status in the higher league.

    "Starting over" is having a phoenix club replacing an erstwhile team and starting at the bottom of the pyramid.
     
  22. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    "I'm all right jack, keep your hands off my stack".
     
  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Not much of a DC United fan then.
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Silva's offer is irrelevant because it was never going to happen.

    But anyway, it worked out at only $13,333,333 per club per season.
     
  25. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I’d probably feel the same if I grew up in England. But I did not.
     

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