Clinging and Climbing: Sam Vines at Royal Antwerp

I think there are always going to be a few MLS players on the USMNT 23 player roster. It’s just the timing. There could be some top young player like Yedlin was in 2014 or a player who just serves a purpose - like Beckerman in 2014. Or just guys who play well for the team (Besler) or an older guy who moved back who is still good - like Dempsey.

It’s not about promoting. It’s just that any country’s domestic league is always going to contain the biggest base of talent for any country - and this is a huge country.

what’s important is that that the league continue to improve so it can be a launchpad of talent for top leagues and a good place for others that’s outside of the top 5 leagues (not unrealistic), and a good place for fans here to develop attachment for their local teams and get immersed in the game. All important

 

That's an interesting example. Not that you're saying Vines is the same kind of case, but didn't Holden need to go on a fairly long trial at Bolton just to earn a short-term deal that ended up leading him finally to a "real" contract -- even after a healthy, standout season in MLS?

It was a great move on his part (he had the passport, and some time in England already under his belt, so he was a fairly low-risk pickup, especially as a free agent; plus, you figure he knew a place in MLS was his if he needed to return) and it obviously paid off in his case.

Holden was also pushing to make a World Cup roster; of course, Vines is too. Still, that kind of gamble might be a tough sell.

 

Wasn't the Columbus-Liverpool move a transfer? Or am I thinking of something else? (Or, perish the thought, simply wrong?)

 

"A range of European clubs are closely tracking Vines, with English sides Barnsley and Bournemouth, Danish power FC Midtjylland and Switzerland’s FC Basel all registering their interest this winter." https://t.co/2X9Y32uEwb

— ChuckMe92 Soccer (@ChuckMe92Soccer) March 7, 2021

 

Interesting detail: This winter a couple of English clubs got as far as calculating Vines' eligibility for a UK work permit. As I understand it, under those complex formulae, he fell just short because of his age - if he was 20 instead of 21 (like Dike), he would have qualified.

— Charles Boehm (@cboehm) March 7, 2021

 

I got it from Wikipedia.

but, Wikipedia said the transfer happened in November. I wonder if it was like Hejduk to Leverkusen, where a token fee was paid to get the player at the end of the MLS season rather than January 1.

 

How about EPB?

 

Just another run-of-the-mill case!

 

The NYT reported in late '97:

Liverpool agreed in October to pay $1.7 million to get Friedel's release from the Columbus Crew of Major League Soccer. ​

So, yeah, I guess it was kind of as you describe.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/20/...cup-friedel-is-cleared-to-join-liverpool.html

But is $1.7M really a "token" fee? I guess it depends who's paying!

 

Back in ‘97, I think $1.7 million was a decent amount.

 

In fairness, according to T'Markt, it was Liverpool's smallest transfer of the season. With that said, it was for a GK, so that's not shocking I suppose.

 

I imagine he would take a move like that, but I’d honestly prefer him to stay in MLS. It’s important for the development of young players to play with and against experienced guys who are also talented, and it’s good for the national team to have competent players available in North America, given the complications of transatlantic travel.

 

Rumor of a Belgian move:

Sam Vines is closing in on a deal to join Royal Antwerp and Rubio Rubin has an improved deal with Real Salt Lake, sources tell @samstejskal, @jeffrueter and @PaulTenorio:https://t.co/cfGcku8reg

— The Athletic Soccer (@TheAthleticSCCR) July 14, 2021

(sub required)

 

Royal Antwerp on the verge on winning the race to sign Sam Vines.

Colorado have been fielding offers on Vines for a while, including from Belgium, Spain and Germany, per sources. Will be interesting to see how the Rapids replace Vines' minutes in the interim https://t.co/5F5DC1JIFt

— Tom Bogert (@tombogert) July 14, 2021

 

I’ve confirmed that this deal is in the works and it should be announced in the coming days #Rapids96 https://t.co/yftcy1maa9

— Abbie Mood (@AbbieMood) July 14, 2021

Looks like the move is in the final stages

 

Awesome. You love to see it.

 

Is this really a step up from MLS?

 

have we had a single guy go to europe and not feel that while the league itself might not be harder the environment around that league was a step up?

 

Scandanavia.

 

Playing in Belgium doesn't necessarily give you huge inroads into the USMNT (Brenden Hines-Ike was a starter there for stretches, Chris Durkin doesn't scream call-up) but Vines is going to Antwerp - which is a top five team in that league. There's always a difference.

If he was going to Cercle Brugge, it'd be fair to ask why he's leaving Colorado.

When you get outside the "Big 4" or "Big 5" leagues, the question becomes more about the club and less about the league. Is he going to Celtic or Ross County? Is he going to Ajax/PSV or is he going to RKC Waalwijk/Go Ahead Eagles?

This seems like a good move for Vines.

 

While Antwerp isn't one of the more recognizable teams outside of Belgium they have a great fanbase and are considered the oldest team in Belgium. Plus they have drastically improved over the last few years, they won promotion in 16/17 so they returned to the top flight in 17/18 and after a so so first season they have qualified for Europa 3 straight seasons.

So while a bit of a weird move with the improvement the team has made it could be a very underrated move.

I do find it funny how two guys I like in Tactical Manager and 11 Yanks said he would never leave MLS and... it looks like he is leaving MLS

 

According to Mark McKenzie, in many ways it is a big step up. Not that an MLS team couldn't beat a Belgium team, but the training, competition for spots, tactical understanding, intensity of the games, pressure of expectations, etc all make it challenging.

 

Reggie Cannon said something about comparing his season with Boavista with MLS and I think it fits here (and I am paraphrasing)

In the MLS if you have a bad year it's a bad year. You have a 2 month vacation basically. In Europe if you have a bad year you get relegated. It hurts you, your team, your teammates, the fans and it makes the next year uncertain. It makes things much more stressful mentally.

Do I think MLS teams could beat some teams in Belgium, Austria, and Portugal? Yes. But the mindset is different as are the competitions