News: European Super League Or Bust - The OTT [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Bernd Leno told Arsenal he's leaving in the summer. They went from having 2 starting calibre goalkeepers to zero in 2 years.
     
  2. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    [emoji2]
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    He can't come back because he knows I'll ask him about the time he said Man Utd would never experience years of failure like Arsenal because fan standards were too high :p
     
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  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Honestly I hope Arsenal get relegated like HSV
     
  5. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You really don't. It would be unbearable. Especially since the club did this to themselves by sacking the golden goose.

    On an unrelated note. I have the broad strokes of the glazers' takeover and our finances. What do you recon their endgame is? For me, if they were planning to keep the club long term, wouldn't it have made sense at some point to just pay off the ********ing debt? Like have net spending of zero for 3 seasons and pay off the loans so that you aren't bleeding money every month? I always assumed them keeping the club in debt was about taxes but sure, they don't need to keep this level of debt to keep the taxman at bay?
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    They don't really have to worry about the debt as at current levels it doesn't impact the shareprice

    They get their vig from 2 sources

    1. They can sell tranches of shares on the public markets (which they've done before)
    2. By control of the voting class of shares, they maintain board control, so can take cash out via fees etc

    My guess is they will sell more batches of shares from time to time and basically wait for someone to eventually make a takeover attempt via the publically traded shares.
     
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  7. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Right so if they intended to keep the club as a long term investment (16 years is long, but you know what I mean) wouldn't it make sense to stop paying interest? Like, the money is cheap but it isn't free. I guess what I'm asking is there some reason other than passing it on to the next guy, to keep the debt? I know it isn't crippling for the business but why would you keep paying interest? Like why would I keep refinancing rather than paying off the mortgage? Is there something I'm missing?


    I guess what I'm reaching for is, I've always assumed keeping the debt meant they were taking the short term view and would sell at some point. No point paying off 600M if you don't have to. I'm looking for a light at the end of this ********ing tunnel.
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The difference is when I sell my house, I also have to pay back the bank whatever I still owe on my mortgage.

    When the Glazers sell their shares on the public market - they don't have to pay the bank back, as the debt is owed by Man Utd, not by the Glazers.


    It's possible Utd the club might decide to retire debt, but given how cheap debt is right now, they are more likely to spend money on trying to grow the club or just keep it as cash. The board is incentivised to pimp the share price as opposed to paying down debt.
     
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  9. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Interesting development: will at least give coaches some much needed wiggle room when making up their squads.
     
  10. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Couple thoughts From a lay person point of view,

    because debt is so cheap, you wouldn't jump to pay it off* as in theory you should be able to get a higher return investing it elsewhere.

    look at glazer and the club as two separate entities. The glazers are able to get money/ get money out from/of the club as it is. The club isn't necessarily hurting from having the debt. Paying off the debt reduces cash available for investing presumably at a higher rate/club operations/buying players (ha!)/returning to shareholders/pilfering.

    *Unless you think rates are going to go up beyond an acceptable rate in the short term.
     
  11. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I understand the value of cheap debt, it just boggles my mind that a 'good' solution by anyone's reconing is 1 billion in interest and loan repayments. ********ing pay it off man. I ********ing hate them.
     
  12. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The club is essentially valued at some multiple of EBIT

    So what matters most to the Glazers is massaging the financials to look like revenue is growing, costs are under control, the club generates lots of cash etc
     
  14. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Woof. Poor Smalling & Henrikh. My gosh. Oooh, maybe we can sell them Scott?
     
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  15. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    That is an elite move from Roma. They are more patient than a top team which could work in Jose's favor. If he does win the league, a big achievement.

    on a side note, I am a big fan of Galtier and Rudi Garcia, I think both of them should move to the EPL at some stage. I could see Rudi at Arsenal.
     
  16. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I need to go look at the financial stuff on this to ascertain total debt but if they are paying 1b in debt service on 600m total debt then yeah I agree with you.

    Ps. *Reckoning? (You did that twice)
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think that is the costs of the debt over 16 years - they had some high interest junk bonds originally.

    The real issue is the debt created no value for the club.
     
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  18. Chaz Striker

    Chaz Striker Member+

    Jul 26, 2005
    Denver
    Chris smalling:

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1219 Ashur, May 4, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021

    Neymar is going to have to step up big for PSG today, if they are to make it thru. The others will have to as well of course, but Ney has to lead the charge.
    It's what he failed to do consistently for me since he went to France (ironic, since it's the reason he left). Even more so since he did do it at time with Barca, despite the presence of Messi et al, the last season won the CL.
    With no Mbappe to start, PSG's task is that much more difficult but with the talent they have, it's not entirely impossible either.
     
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  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think it's hard to carry a team from wide forward

    The midfield have to create the platform for him
     
  21. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Talking about leadership, stepping to the fore as a genuine superstar player in any team sport is expected to do. That is what PSG will require from Ney today...
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    What do you consider leadership to be?

    In the 2nd half last week, he was not receiving the ball, so he had to drop deeper and deeper to get involved. So the effort was there, but if you don't have any platform as an attacking player it is difficult to be demonstrative in terms of your performance.
     
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  23. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    A Keane/juve type performance. He has to both do it and inspire the team to elevate all at the same time.

    Don't think he is the character to pull this off though.
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    My point is, you can do a Keane/juve type performance if you play holding midfield from where you can control the game.

    If PSG are losing the game in midfield, he won't be able to do much - unless he can grab something in what little comes his way
     
  25. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    He has to be put in an optimal chance to succeed but as the superstar on the team, he must be ready to do his part to lead his teammates to victory, in spite of that. It means being sharp and make the most of any opportunity that presents itself to him. It means doing everything he can, even if it falls outside of what he is kind of expected to do (whether it's extra defensive work or dropping deeper in order to get the ball and get plays going). In short, doing whatever it takes.
    Not sure what you're being so thick about here that you don't know what it means to lead in a do or die situation...
     

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