There was a certain silliness that drove the WengerBackIn comments. I'd realized Wenger's time had come too. Who would you plausibly buy that is better than Granit Xhaka?
At what he does best, not many, certainly not in Arsenal’s price range, to play quicker and create a better balance in midfield, there are players out there. He has limitations in his game, if Arsenal can find a player without those limitations, but who is not quite as good as Xhaka as a progressive passer, I’ll take that player every time. Edit: I believe you even liked one that was mentioned in the transfer thread two or three weeks ago, Manuel Locatelli.
I wonder how a midfield 3 of Partey, ESR, and MO would go. It certainly could be much better than Xhaka at ball progression.
I know just ribbing you. As for replacements, specifically? I don’t know. I can give you a hindsight bias obvious example though: Tottenham bought Hojbjerg last summer, he has identical if not better attacking/passing stats this year and is a significantly better defender than Xhaka, he’s three years younger than Xhaka, and he cost 15m pounds, less than half of what Xhaka did five years ago. That seems like a good example of cost-effective midfield transfer business, and there are others.
I mean lots of teams have midfielders better than Xhaka See for example Wijnaldum (23m) or Tielemans (32m) The problem is Wenger hugely overpaid for someone who was supposedly a powerful all action midfielder with great passing range - but it turned out he was more a relic of a previous era, who needs many touches, is slow, is poor defensively etc etc and can't play 6 or 8
Forgot about him - I'd even started watching some Serie A (but quickly stopped). I wonder if he could hold up physically in the Premier League. Wijnaldum has a very different role for Liverpool, and a younger version of him would be a great partner for someone like Xhaka in a midfield three (but our wings aren't good). Tielemans and Hojberg give the ball away way too much.
The point is, you can't afford a xhaka role, unless the person also happens to be defensive quality with an all round 6 game (like an example of this player even?) or an elite talent like Kroos who lacks mobility and defense. So the 6 will tend to be a defensively elite player, with good passing The Xhaka role as some reincarnation of Scholes/Carrick doesn't exist
i think that's the thing. in the price range we can afford, finding someone to do that role is a bit tough. to me, the real solution is just replacing xhaka with a true 6 and letting partey + odegaard (or smith-rowe if we do not get odegaard) do the 8/10 hybrid role. arteta likely eventually wants to get there anyway, we might as well pull the band-aid off this offseason while xhaka is in the right sell range (27 + 2 years left on contract) where we can still get value for him. for the record, i'm still a fan of xhaka, that has not changed. but i'm looking at this in terms of this club needing to maximize what it *can* get for people who *could* be sold for values.
i don't know . . . i feel like you can maybe afford the role, you just cannot afford xhaka in that role. at least not in the premier league.
I mean literally unaffordable. We are talking a generational talent who is good on both feet, mobile, good in the air, able to play almost as a centre back ... Josh Kimmich comes to mind. Otherwise you have to compromise on some of that stuff but the problem is, either they have to be truly elite (like Kroos who was a 10 who has moved back into central midfield) and you have to compensate with a double pivot somehow This is why I'd prefer to see us dump the Xhaka approach and go for a more realistic 6 who is defensively good with decent short passing game This also means we will need decent disty from one of the centre backs - as it is often them that need to play the diagonals
Exactly - we should just get a proper 6 - more how Guardiola sees the role, so Partey can play as an 8 or Partey has to be the 6, and we get a proper 8
i'd like to see a true 6 with partey as the 8. i'm certain partey can do the 6 given where we got him from and what he did there but he came so he could expand his game and, honestly, i don't think i ever got over my essien-envy.
You're basically saying we should play two 8s with a DM. In other words, Manchester City. And even they weren't able to solve the Fernandinho problem. Chelsea's solution was to spend a trillion on Jorginho. Liverpool went in a different direction by using fullbacks for ball progression and creation, but they got lucky with TAA - they don't have those trophies without him. And even they tried to address the issue by signing Fabinho, Keita, and their pursuit of Fekir. This is why David Luiz is an Arsenal player. And why we spent a ton on Gabriel (who I'm not sold on yet).
I think the only way you get that player is you develop him. It would cost a bomb to buy him. We need to stop wasting the physical talents in the Academy. Also I'm fairly certain Ozil could have filled that role for a season or two.
Gabriel was bought for his defensive qualities, not his distribution. His passing range, is not great. Ironically the center back that has demonstrated a great range of passing is the one Arteta deemed not ready.
Midfields need more than one world class player to function at a high level modric and Kronos, xavi and iniesta etc I do t believe in the single pivot because it’s almost impossible to find that guy. It is easier to go with a double and then a more advanced playmaker. Xhaka actually works in a 4231 but the issue is the players at the top of the pitch being ruud functional together and a keeper than can’t pass
Again, Hojbjerg does literally everything Xhaka does offensively at the same level or better, is also a better defender, and cost 15m last summer. Good deals are still out there.
i could be wrong but it feels like finding a proper 6 that won't break the bank remains easier than a quality 6/8 pivot, no?
I think it kind of depends which players you have. e.g if you have two all round players - then double pivot can be good - thinking Germany 2010 when Schweini and Sami Khedira But I tend to agree with guardiola that the single pivot controls the space better - but then you support that guy with your fullbacks while your 8s work further forwards