2020 Canadian Championship (R)

Those leagues had dates, the others did not other than their season starting end of May. The issues rests solely with government approval and the CSA is a direct culprit for this mess. As of March 5th - we still have no dates with the game in 15 days?

Utterly unacceptable

If #TFCLive didn’t already have an advantage over #ForgeFC in the #CanChamp final, it’s seems as though Forge can’t even train yet. https://t.co/oJrqhJksjL

— Rudi Schuller (@RudiSchuller) March 5, 2021

 

Forge owner Bon Young denouncing clear favoritism.

Canadian soccer fans - I need help understanding our national federation, @CanadaSoccerEN : pic.twitter.com/SRZP9I4mJn

— Bob Young (@CaretakerBob) March 6, 2021

 

MLS got TFC to train due to the proposed start date of the preseason. Asking for an extra 2 week of training is reasonable. The problem isn't Forge who does have a proposed CPL start date (Victoria day) for which the league already applied for the permission to play.

Unless you have a valid reason to gather under current provincial restrictions, you won't be allowed to gather. Unless there's a valid reason like (V Cup date) - it's not reasonable to allow 30+ people to gather close to 3 months in advance for their league due to an "hypothetical game". That's not how governments work, they need a date and a clear plan.

Let's not forget that Forge trained in Hamilton during the Concacaf League run. They had clear dates and a clear reason to gather thus the province allowing them to train. Here, we know a game is supposed to happen but somehow, the CSA has yet to announce a date. What's taking the CSA so long? That's on them - their event, their game, their tournament - their responsibility to make it happen.

 

TFC shutdown due to COVID - I'm guessing that NOW pushing back the date makes sense...

12 days before the (reported) March 20 #CanChamp final. pic.twitter.com/WrYEGOgwrn

— Rudi Schuller (@RudiSchuller) March 8, 2021

 

When you think the CSA couldn't be more of a joke than it already was - they find a way to surprise you at every turn...

You can't make this shit up

 

I expect the owner of Hamilton Forge is happy. There were suggestions that they were planning to forfeit the Champions League this week all along, with no intentions of getting ready for the March game, or the Champions League, not being to play in Canada - and up against the top Mexican team last season. And they've managed to spin it, to get the Canadian Championship final moved to Hamilton. Presumably with the intention of not holding it until the summer, when they'll have people (and revenue) in the stands.

Very well played by Hamilton!

 

I'm not sure where you get your sources but no one except for TFC is happy about this.

No intention to train? They were forbid too

 

If TFC is happy, it's only because they could move to Florida earlier - though Covid had other thoughts.

It's not like TFC was going to have any problems dealing with a third-tier, half-missing CPL squad, at home, with no reason not to play the A team. Ironically Hamilton Forge now have a small chance of pulling something off, with the game at TimBits, and TFC likely sending a B team (though I really don't see how it fits into the 2021 schedule until November or December, unless they play during an International Break).

There's no indication that they even submitted an application to. And nothing stopped them moving to Florida with TFC earlier and training.

One soccer pundit outright claimed that Hamilton would forfeit the following week, one week before they forfeited, and never had an intention of training. And even Wheeler said there was something else going on to explain why Hamilton wasn't going to be available to play the match. All the whining from the owner, seems to be more about trying to sell moving the final to TimBits than anything else.

To suggest that TFC was actually happy about this, when there is no space for a game in Hamilton in the 2021 schedule is incredulous.

 

Great - more nonsense posts (you do post nonsense on the Voyageurs forum)

Vancouver were eliminated by Cavalry with their A squads. Montreal Impact narrowly advanced to the last Canadian Championship by beating both York and Cavalry by 1 goal / needing the return of Nacho Piatti in their A squads to get them past these 2 CPL squads.

Playing B teams might have worked against USL and the Fury but 2019 demonstrated how risky it was to do that against CPL teams.

The CSA didn't want to play the game in the US - so Forge had no reason to go to Florida.

You need other sources than Rollins who's been equally wrong many times. The reason is simple, it's the Government of Ontario blocking Forge from training. Other provinces like Nova Scotia have cleared Halifax to train.

The owner was right to give an earful to the CSA - they f'ed up and mishandled the whole file - you'd have to be blind not to see that.

I'm actually of the opinion that Montreal should have went to the CCL and the CSA should have done the same as the USSF and cancel the 2020 Canadian Championship altogether but somehow, found a way to make it even more comical with their (maybe we'll play the 2020 final in 2022). Ridiculous.

 

I post nonsense? Elsewhere here you tried to pretend that TFC isn't Canadian?

You are so utterly biased against the three top Canadian squads that you can't think straight!

Neither were top MLS squads, and neither played A teams.

This wouldn't have been the case if Hamilton was too cheap to get to Florida and start paying salaries to players.

Good grief - do you really think the semi-professional part-time CPL teams are now better than the USL?

Good USL squads have beaten poor, and even half-decent MLS squads over the years, in the USA and Canada. Normally the MLS squad wins, but year after year there's some exceptions. Hey and on any given day, anything is possible - but less likely on a two-legged affair.

But a CPL team beating a top MLS team? Well, I suppose anything can happen in soccer (unlike some other sports, like Rugby Union)

You are making that up - there's been no information one way or another.

Oh come on, not only did he call it a week before it happened. He said which day they'd do it. It's quite clear talks were underway for a while, and Hamilton was quite happy not to have to put a squad together (and I don't blame them, given the circumstances, and the opponent).

The owner should have been censured by CSA. He was spinning it to try and get the game at Timbits stadium.

I think sending Atlanta to Champions League is beyond absurd. They've always gone to the best MLS squad in the past, when there's been no Voyageurs Cup - you only want to do differently because it's Toronto that was by far the top MLS team and had won the MLS Canadian 9-match round-robin, and you seem to have some odd hate for Toronto or something. Did you get banned from BMO or something?

Presumably they'll do the same in 2021 with no competition, and seeing the difficulty of playing the same kind of final match.

Either way, I see you are a noob here. Welcome!

 

They have a proven track record of disproportionally play more Americans than Canadians under Greg Vanney - Fact. EVen the CBC wrote an article on it about TFC being the best team in Canada but far from being Canada's team.

Montreal and Vancouver actually play way more Canadians than TFC so I don't have an issue with them. Last night the new coach gave young Canadians minutes and they impressed against Leon, Vanney would have done that over his dead body.

How can we be better in U23 competitions when they aren't playing those type of games and teams like TFC glue our guys to the bench?

I'm not just being critical for the fun of it. I used to be the biggest MLS fan and was watching the 3 clubs playing every week. Then you start connecting the dots in why we can't get better internationally. There's a reason the U23 USMNT couldn't beat Honduras or Mexico, same for us. Their guys plays 90 minutes CONSTANTLY - and Honduras league is lower than MLS, but that matters and it's not just about "form".

Develop the guys all you want, if they are just subs or on the bench - expecting them to get a result or grind one against those guys is wishful thinking. That's why CPL was established - to have our players get those minutes so it will help the National team in the long run. It's already paying off in CONCACAF league with Forge.

Bash the league all you want but they are the one's giving the most minutes to young Canadians in a professional environment. That's how in the long run, you can build youth squads capable of performing much better in U23 or U20 competitions

Choosing to not watch it is entirely up to you - but gratuitously bashing it as a fanboy is not realizing that you're conveying that the National programs doesn't matter that much to you, nor the young guys trying to make it in that sport. CPL is needed and should be supported whether you choose to watch it or not.

Now you're moving the goalpost with those arguments... No one's foolish enough to say that CPL can compete against top MLS clubs - but your anti CPL bias can't accept that the gap you're talking about isn't as big as you think it is vs. mid to lower tier MLS.

Montreal DID play their A team against York - I was there and they needed their best player Nacho Piatti to eliminate both York and Cavalry. Your comments makes it very obvious that you haven't watched those games, even the most CPL skeptics among journalists admitted that CPL level was underestimated.

They have no reason to go to Florida if the CSA isn't organizing any games. Cheap? Forge was in Central America the entire fall when they were in CONCACAF League yet - they can't go to Florida?

Man are you for real?

I don't think USL teams would do better than what Forge did in their CONCACAF League run.

And your definition of CPL is why you're being ridiculed in the Voyageurs Forums - stick to TFC

Cavalry did it in their inaugural year over 2 legs.

We just saw Arcahaie draw Cruz Azul and I think some club from Panama previously eliminated TFC in CCL. Forge eliminated the best club in Panama last year - Anything can happen.

Then why didn't they? Even your boy Rollins found it ridiculous that the CSA didn't bite the bullet and just play in Florida. It's their tournament - unless there's a decision, Forge can't do anything about it.

Yet the date he called didn't happen. Yes talks were underway with Forge wanting more time to train (the audacity)! That game should have been played in September, that F-up is of the CSA's making.

Right...the CSA will censor the 1 guy that gave them a Division 1 league to sanction. You're funny!

The USSF are beyond absurd...Noted

Noob? You don't know anything about Canadian soccer beyond MLS, dare I say TFC - stick to UrbanToronto

 

The goal is to win, not to play the most Canadians.

My gosh, last night TFC played more Canadians than Leon did Mexicans! Your comments make it very obvious that you haven't watched that game!

You frequently see top English teams playing with zero English in the starting line-up. Should that stop?

Someone should tell them the goal is to win, not to play the most Canadians.

To tell the truth, I did miss that one. I'd been planning on going to the game, but my father was in town from Vancouver. Though I did get up there to see a CPL game. To tell the truth, the atmosphere in Hamilton seemed better.

I'm quite happy to ridiculed by a bunch of fools who think that semi-professional CPL is the same level of quality as MLS, and that we should throw the MLS teams out of the country. The unnecessary partisanship and hostility to someone WHO ACTUALLY WATCHES CPL GAMES is laughable, pathetic, and infantile. It's almost as if those posting it are still in their 20s or something, and in the phase where they think they know everything, but still shitting orange.

 

We all accepted the goal was to win above helping the program despite that being the pitch when MLS started in Canada. This lead to Montagliani launching CPL to address it - so it doesn't phase me one bit. As long as they are loaned somewhere they can play or sold that's good because that was NOT what was happening pre-CPL. We wasted LOTS of talent.

Mexico and England pool is sooooo deep that their top league being "elite" doesn't negatively impact them. Canada's different - if they aren't playing at that level, it impact us much worse which were feedback shared by both Floro and Zambrano.

Yet Montreal won the 2019 Canadian Championship. Honestly - I don't mind what TFC does but if you're going full team America, you better win.

If you lose while benching Canadians (which they've done for years) don't get upset people start criticizing the way you do business.

York Lions was insane that night. I'll never argue that they are even or very close to MLS level - but you can't neglect all the other aspects such as coaching, tactics, training etc...

• York exploited all of Montreal's flaws which made the series much closer than it should have been.
  
• Cavalry flat out deserved that win over Vancouver, they just played better football over 2 legs.
  
• Cavalry got cocky and tried to outplay Montreal at midfield with Piatti there instead of replicating and perfecting what York did to them.

I never said CPL was the same level but they aren't as low as you're implying. I'd put the in the same tier as Honduras / Costa Rica / Panama tier while ahead of El Salvador / Guatemala and Caribbean. The goal is top 3 in the region - I think it's realistic post 2026. I don't know where you keep seeing people stating that CPL is on the same level but it isn't as weak as you trained yourself to believe it is.

Throw them out of the country? If you want their CCL points to count for the US then what's the point of having them here to begin with? If it came to that, that would be due to a sanctioning issue, take it up with CONCACAF

The infantile behavior comes from you who barely watch the games, keep confusing "lower quality with lower tier", troll on the V forums, doesn't understand sanctioning in this country - let alone this region and keep calling CPL semi-pro which tells me that you have no concept of how semi-pro actually operates.

Ask questions instead of spewing nonsense

 

I thought I'd ignore the other stuff and jump to where we agree.

I agree with you on this. In fact, the best CPL team is probably far ahead of the worst Honduran team - heck maybe even the worst CPL team. But last time I checked, only one of these leagues was fully-professional (but there's much more disparity in the league, so some squads are fully professional, while others aren't).

Don't get me wrong. I want the CPL to succeed. I want them to be good enough for the MLS teams to move over and not have to have a significant reduction in quality or salary cap. I'd much sooner watch TFC playing an equally competitive Halifax team or Hamilton team every week than some foreign team I have no connection to or interest in. And my favourite games have always been the cup games, with the extra danger of not being one of 30+ in the season.

But the frequent hostility that comes from some CPL fans does alienate some of those that could be the most easily interested in coming out on a regular basis. Well, so does the distance to Hamilton and King City.

There's lot of definitions of semi-pro. While one can debate endlessly, I like the one where it's that the salary for the 18th player on the worst team (or perhaps worst non-relegated team ) in the league is above minimum wage - which means they don't have to find other employment or income sources during the year.

I think a lot of us were surprised when we found out how low CPL salaries actually were. If they are fully-professional, it's very, very close to the line. And perhaps hard to tell without having two non-Covid seasons in a row.

I don't think I've called them semi-pro over the Voyageurs forum - I'm not sure the fragility of a minority there could handle that.

I can't fathom why lower tier is a big issue. It's quite clear that CSA treats them as if they are lower-tier when they do the entry points for the Voyageurs Cup. It's one of these things that seems obvious to most people, but someone who is particularly sensitive bothered by it reacts to.

Kind of like my brother in-law, who when I commented about him being deported, got upset and insisted he'd left the country voluntarily before the deadline, so he wasn't legally deported. I couldn't care less whether he was deported or not - I'm thrilled to have him in the family (and back in the country). But to him, the term had a stigma, that it didn't for anyone else. Legally speaking, he was correct. But one doesn't chat in legalese.

 

You have to stop with the (low wage = semi-pro)... what's you measuring stick here? Are the wages lower? yes but that doesn't make it semi-pro... Point me to a single mainstream media outlet calling them semi-pro. Go!

If you don't believe that CPL is pro - that's your "opinion" but your "feelings" aren't fact. The whole organization and structure is very much so professional

Funny way to show it. Also, MLS 1st year minimum was $12k. This takes time - CPL will grow too.

You mean a handful of TFC hardcores? ok... People being upset when others throws "their feelings around" as facts without actually watching the games and do their homework on the league and the differences between "pro & semi-pro"

How dare they

So all those sports analysts, medias are all wrong but you? This isn't a debate - it's factual that the league is pro - no one cares about your feelings and perceived measuring stick

CFL players work 2 jobs despite a minimum salary of $65K...but they aren't pro...right?

When MLS minimum was around 30k in 2010, that league was semi-pro for sure!!!!

Again - no one cares about your feelings. CPL is pro. It pays less than MLS and the quality is lower, but it's pro nonetheless

COVID didn't help but about 2/3 of the player came from actually semi-pro. Disappointing? Sure - we all want players to earn good wages especially the 2019 guys who outplayed their contracts.

However, most of them never played pro before, you can't be surprised that their wage was low, which was based on the lack or no pro experience. Again - they've outplayed their contracts by a mile and deserve a correction. Glad the league was "shamed" into raising it at a more accurate level. No one talks about the bonuses though...no wonder Forge players never complained...those guys got paid a good wage thanks to their CONCACAF runs

Why would they? You're flat out wrong. Even the most CPL skeptics/realists like RS wouldn't let that slide. Your opinions/feelings are just that - not facts

It was their inaugural year - no one threw a fit over it. Also, you want to respect the legacy of MLS clubs. Lastly, lower quality is factual, lower tier isn't.

I can't fathom why you're being so stubborn about it - just say lower quality going forward. That's actually a fact.

 

Indeed. Duane should have gotten an award for that one. No wonder one of the owners was phoning and shouting at him!

It's not a term the media use. The standard generally is do the top 18 players get paid enough that they don't need other sources of income.

Surely whatever anyone says is opinion not fact. This is a discussion board, not a legal proceeding.

I never said otherwise. Stop pivoting.

Hey, I'm engaged. 99% of MLS fans couldn't give a flying f*ck about this. Support doesn't mean I'm sticking my tongue up Paul Beirne's ass. (even though I think Paul is doing a great job ... but full disclosure ... he's attempted to bribe me with free beer before).

It was about CAN$50,000 (for the 18th player) in 1996, in 2021 dollars

I've never said it wasn't. Not once. Please stop twisting this. Your feeling are not facts. I'm sorry I offended your religious fervour for CPL, and broke the rule that one should never criticize them!

To me that would be offensive. I was trying to stay neutral so not to to hurt those whose self-esteem is too closely tied to the success of what the US would consider a third-tier league.

Not sure what he'd think. I've seldom disagreed with him. And he certainly acknowledges that CPL wouldn't exist without MLS. I'd say Rudi is a bigger TFC fan than me.

Does CanPL even exist without MLS proving that professional soccer is viable in Canada?

— Rudi Schuller (@RudiSchuller) June 2, 2018

 

We've reached the point of diminished return here.

I'd credit the Union way more than butthurt Rollins who got his feelings hurt when the league excluded him from their Island games press conferences. He's been on a league bashing mission ever since.

Enjoy the TFC season, at least they started playing more Canadians and can grind results with them.

As for the rest, whatever man. We finally have our own league so the whole passing co test you keep starting all over the place must be coming from a massive place of repressed inferiority complex or something.

Let me tell you a secret...

*whispers*

CPL fans KNOWS that the quality is lower than MLS and we're OK with it and understand that it will take TIME to grow the league.

We're enjoying ourselves - we don't need uninformed "know it all" to bash it via trolling.

We can debate where the league isn't doing great and can improve but what you're doing is just...

Enjoy your evening

 

guess its not updated