Best peak ever

1.)Messi 2nd half la liga 14/15+CL

2.)Pele 1960-1965=Messi 2010-2012=Maradona 1980=Puskas 1947-1950

3.)Cruyff 1971-74=Alfredo Di stefano 1956-1959=Cristiano Ronaldo 2009-2014

4.)Ronaldo nazario 1996-1998=Pele 1957-1959=Eusebio 1964-1968=beckenbaur 1971-1976=Platini 1982-1985= C.Ronaldo 2007/08=Maradona 1984/85

4.5)
Zico 1977-1981 =Neymar Jr 2017/18=George best 1967/68=Ronaldinho 2005/06=luis Suarez 2013/14 first half EPL


https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...4/jan/09/premier-league-midway-review-2013-14

5.)Puskas 1959-1964=Marco van basten 1987-1993=Gerd Muller 1970-1976=Romario 1993/94=Cristiano Ronaldo 2016-2018

Honourable mentions
Zidane 2000-2003
Rivaldo 1998/99
Figo 1999-2001
Baggio(from the 2nd half of 92 up until WC 1994)
18 months give or take
Thierry Henry 2002-2004
Rummenige 1979-1982
Zlatan ibrahimovic 2009-2013
Xavi hernandez 2009-2011
Stoickhkov 1990-1994
Arjen Robben 2014/15

 

I'd move platini 1983/84 into tier 3 actually and id move Eusebio 1965/66 (Portuguese league top scorer+European cup top scorer+world cup golden ball/boot) into tier 3 aswell


Nobody from 1980-1990 scored 20 Serie A goals except Platini (Not even van basten)
And he did so playing in a position not too far removed from Andrea pirlos(A deep lying playmaker)

He won the Italian championship and his performance in Euro 1984 was inarguably one of the best tournament performances ever
It was a complete season

my revised list for tiers 4-5 would be

Tier 4
Pele 1957-1959 =Ronaldo nazario la liga 1996/1997=Ronaldinho 2005/06 la liga+CL=Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 premier league+CL=Zico 1981 copa libertadores+State championship=Maradona 1984/85 Serie A=George best 1967/68 English first div+European cup

Tier 4.5
This is for players who were at or very close to the level of tier 4 players But couldn't maintain it for the duration of a season (for one reason or another)
Neymar Jr 2017/18 ligue 1 +CL till injury
Luis Suarez 2013/14 PL first half
Ronaldinho 2003/04 la liga(2nd half)
Ruud gullit 1987/88 (2nd half Serie A)

Tier 5 is unchanged(the 5 best box striker primes of all time)
And id probably include in the honourable mentions of peaks players as lewandowski 19/20 and Suarez of 2016
The peaks of Kocsis(1952) was probably no less than Lewandowski either
Neither technically or statistically


Franz beckenbaurs peak I'm not sure where to put it
I'd assume anything less than tier 4 would be underrating (?)

Zidane never had a dominant season par excellence he was not just not that type of player
Good/average/Poor media ratings for most of his time in Italy
Lost the la liga MVP to nihat kavechi in 2002/03 and despite the glorious technique never had the rhythm or consistency over a 38 game season

I'd be surprised if he was objectively superior to someone like Rivelino or Gianni Rivera (as a dribbler,scorer or creator)

These playmakers are commonly cited as being in the top 40-60 range of all time lists which is where zidane belongs too

 

1º tier: Pelé (60-65)
2º tier: Messi (2011-2019), Cruyff (1969-1974), Maradona (1980-1989), Ronaldo (1996-1998), Garrincha (1957-1962), Eusebio (1962-1968), Puskas(?)
3º: Di Stefano (?), Best (- ~1972), Cristiano Ronaldo (2007-2014), Ronaldinho (2004-2006), Henry (2001-2006), Platini (1979-1985), Zico (1976-1982), Suarez (2013-2016), Romário (1989-1994), Neymar (2016-2018), Muller, Van Basten...Robben?

This in a very superficial way! I would need to reflect on this much more in fact.

1 tier and 2 tier are the kind of players who can or have had the potential to carry their team to a final or a World Cup title and to be consistently a big threat in big games. The 3 tier are from the players who reached a very high level, but did not have that power, they are still a level above the general world class players.

 

@

 

Wow, I'm surprised to be mentioned along the great posters on the forum. There are defintely other names with more deep knowledge indeed .
Nonetheless, I mind to participate in this discussion by giving some names that pop out of my head with their respective peak (in my humble opinion) of a single season (including internationals in the corresponding time window) or tournament:

Lionel Messi: 2014/15 season (combination of legendary goalscoring, chance creating and dribbling to enable the maximum team success)
- other notable seasons: 2010/11, 2011/12, 2018/19

Diego Maradona: 1986 WC (in my opinion the highest international peak to be ever witnessed)
- other notable seasons: 1980, 1981, 1986/87

Pele: 1962 season (superb performaces in the Inercontinental Cup, whilst scoring on a legendary level on all occasions)
- other notable seasons: 1958 WC, 1963, 1965, 1970 WC

Johan Cruyff: 1974 WC (maximum offensive impact on a dominant Dutch side)
- other notable seasons: 1970/71, 1971/72

Alfredo Di Stefano: 1956/57 season (leading a great Real Madrid side to success, while collecting an immense amount of votes in the Ballon D'Or ranking)
- other notable seasons: 1957/58

Michel Platini: 1984 EC (offensive monopoly in the title-winning French side)
- other notable seasons: 1983/84, 1984/85

Garrincha: 1962 WC (taking over the lead of Brazil's team after the injury of prime Pelé to secure an uncontested WC double)

Eusebio: 1964/65 season (winning goalsoring titles in the Portuguese league and the European Cup, but especially showing his value in the first-ever World Cup qualification of his country)
- other notable seasons: 1965/66, 1966 WC

Ferenc Puskas: 1953 season (a more mature player than his earlier version which indeed had better goalscoring, having an unbeaten year with the Hungarians including a memorable performance in Wembley)
- other notable seasons: 1950, 1952, 1959/60

Zico: 1981 season (showing impressive goalscoring for club and country, while winning both international club titles in impressive fashion as team captain)

George Best: 1967/68 season (sublime goalscoring and dribbling to win Manchester United the European Cup for the first time in their history)

Cristiano Ronaldo: very difficult to say, I see several impressive seasons but not one clear standout. These are: 2007/2008, 2010/11, 2011/12, 2013/14, 2014/15
But there is a whole thread on this to be conquered

Franz Beckenbauer: did not have a standout peak, but was consistently elite world class for several years, e.g. in the 1972 European Championship, 1974 WC

Other names I came across from earlier eras:
Jose Leandro Andrade: 1924 Olympics
Dixie Dean: 1926/27 and 1927/28 season
Alex James: 1930/31 season
Matthias Sindelar: 1931/32 and 1932/33 season
Gyorgy Sarosi: 1936/37 and 1937/38 season
Leonidas: 1938 WC and 1940 season
Jose Manuel Moreno: 1942 CA
Stanley Matthews: 1947/48 season
Ademir: 1950 WC
Laszlo Kubala: 1951/52 season
Sandor Kocsis: 1954 WC
Didi: 1958 WC and 1959 CA

However, it is pretty hard to compare players from different eras. The only valid method would be to assess their realtive strength to their compatriots. That is a very hard task and impossible to complete for former eras with less international contests. Thus, determining the highest peak of a football player ever is highly subjective. My attempt would be Maradona 1986. He is the most naturally gifted player I ever saw material from, even though I'm admittedly a huge Messi fan. And he was able to concentrate that potential on the biggest stage possible.

 

Romario(his optimum version in Europe)


https://www.pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3485&start=60




Cristiano Ronaldo 30-35 years old


https://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1170&start=2980




Marco Van basten 1988-1992


https://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3425&start=60





Gerd Muller 1970-1974


http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2899
I think Gerd muller (his abilities and skillset) is closer to lewandowski albeit with a stronger mentality and big game record

Peak Van basten/Romario are lock with Cristiano 2015-2020 in talent/skillset with minor differences

Romario on game could be the most dangerous dribbler with his dribbling accuracy combined dribbling speed
And was perhaps more prone to pull out of the hat more spectacular feats of technique/control
Downside with him would be his teamplay and reluctance to contribute to build up play

 

This covers the dribbling/ball carrying

Overall I think these are the best 4 versions of strikers over the last 40 or so years

With R9 there is an absence of titles and issue of longevity

In his 1997 guise id say he was more of a forward especially with those runs from deep areas carrying the ball long distances(beating players,attracting opposition defenders and freeing up space for other players to operate in)

After 2002 I don't think he is that level
World class no doubt but not at that level where he is consistently centre stage at the top level

 

Pelé mixed Santos and Brazil (1963-1965)

In total, estimated 11435 minutes, scored 176 goals (34 PK) and 58 assists, 129 games, GF: 373 (2.891 pg).
Estimated non-PK G+A: 1.574 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 54.44%
G+A contribution: 63.70%
On-Off contribution:
1.574 / 2.707 (422/150 Santos + 68/31 Brazil) = 58.14%
1.842 / 2.707 = 68.03%

=> Scored and assisted vs Argentina
=> Scored and assisted vs Germany
=> Scored and assisted vs England
=> Scored and assisted vs URSS
=> Hattrick against France.
=> Paulista state Champion (1964, 1965)
=> Rio-São Paulo Champion (1963, 1964)
=> Brazilian Champion (1963, 1964, 1965)
=> Libertadores and Intercontinental Champion (1963)
=> Paulista state topscorer (1963, 1964, 1965)
=> Rio- São Paulo topscorer (1963)
=> International Cup topscorer (1963)
=> Copa Libertadores Topscorer (1965)

 

Pelé was a tier 3 in the 66-70 imo (he was the player with the most end product in the 1970 Brazilian NT, most key passes+shots, most xG and xA and that was the best NT ever, so he was still very influential compared to his world class teammates, but no longer the force of nature he was until the WC 66, specially in 1970).

and arguably a tier 1 in the 58-59 (as he was the World Cup 58 MVP according to the France Football and the most instrumental player in the KO rounds, scored and assisted at otherwordly levels in all competitions, also was the Topscorer and MVP of Copa América 59).

He was still a World Class (tier 4) player after 1970, but his legs and physique were no longer with him.

Zidane was a very inconsistent world class player, but he was tier 3 for periods.

 

Beast

 

Diego Maradona (1978-1979-1980)
In Argentinos Jrs and Argentina National Team



In 1978 played 3232 minutes, scored 26 goals (6 PK) and 11 assists
36 games, GF: 62 (1.722 pg)- GA: 45 (1.250 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 0.863 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 55.49%

In 1979 played 2969 minutes, scored 29 goals (7 PK) and 16 assists
34 games, GF: 54 (1.735 pg)- GA: 41 (1.206 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.152 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 75.32%

In 1980 played 4950 minutes, scored 50 goals (5 PK) and 26 assists
55 games, GF: 100 (1.818 pg)- GA: 70 (1.273 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.291 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 74.74%


In total played 11151 minutes, scored 105 goals (18 PK) and 53 assists
125 games, GF: 221 (1.768 pg)- GA: 156 (1.248 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.130 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 69.58%

G+A: 1.275 per 90m
G+A contribution: 72.13%

 

Lionel Messi (2010/11)-(2011/12)-(2012/13)
In Barcelona and Argentina National Team



In 2010/11 played 4573 minutes, scored 53 goals (5 PK) and 23 assists
55 games, GF: 138 (2.509 pg)- GA: 36 (0.655 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.397 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 57.78%

In 2011/12 played 5221 minutes, scored 73 goals (14 PK) and 29 assists
60 games, GF: 173 (2.883 pg)- GA: 47 (0.783 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.517 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 57.24%

In 2012/13 played 4070 minutes, scored 60 goals (5 PK) and 15 assists
50 games, GF: 130 (2.600 pg)- GA: 64 (1.280 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.548 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 61.92%

In Argentina NT played 2735 minutes, scored 22 goals (5 PK) and 14 assists
32 games, GF: 63 (1.969 pg)- GA: 22 (0.688 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.020 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 56.28%


In total played 16599 minutes, scored 208 goals (29 PK) and 81 assists
197 games, GF: 504 (2.558 pg)- GA: 169 (0.858 pg)
Non-PK G+A: 1.410 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 58.47%

G+A: 1.567 per 90m
G+A contribution: 61.25%

 

I had 64 GF for Argentina and 17 non-PK goals and 13 assists for Messi.

Same minutes I guess.

30 non-PK + assists / 30.39 non-PK Goals = 0.987 / 2 = ~ 49.35% non-PK+A contribtuion.

In total, estimated 16599 minutes, scored 208 goals (29 PK) and 80 assists, 197 games, GF: 505 (2.563 pg).
Estimated non-PK G+A: 1.404 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 54.79%
G+A contribution: 60.92%
On-Off contribution:
1.404 / 2.539 (500/186 Barcelona + 79/42 Argentina) = 55.29%
1.561 / 2.539 = 61.48%

Not much difference here, I relied on you data of 25 PK at Barcelona it seems it was 24 PK (29 in the total) then.

About Maradona I don't have the data of the Argentinian League (minutes, goals, assists, GF of his teams, data in general), just for Argentina NT in 1978-1980 I can find.

 

Assists for Santos was based on the Spanish Wiki (after erased), the number of assists for the NT I checked a bit of it (not all the matches, just the most evident ones) to complement the work done by forist Lucas.... here, it was a bit incomplete. Fun fact is that the Spanish Wiki underestimates the number of assists Pelé had for his NT in this period in question.

On-Off is based on how much the team and the NT averaged in all the period, with and without the player, so it is relative. If the team scored more goals without the player, his relative contribution is lower than his actual contribution (relative only to the matches he played), if the team scored less without the player, his relative contribution is higher, meaning that the team depended more on the player's contribution (on and off the ball) to score more goals.

 

Yes 64 GF in 32 games, is 2 goals per game but you have to substract the 5 PK to the 64 GF, so is 59 GF in 32 games, 1.844 goals per game
Messi score 17 Non PK-goals and 13 assists in 16599 minutes, 0.987 per 90m
0.987/1.844= 53.54% of Non-PK G+A contribution in NT

In total played 16599 minutes, scored 208 goals (29 PK) and 80 assists
197 games, GF: 505 (2.563 pg)- GA: 170 (0.863 pg)
1.404/2.416= 58.12
Non-PK G+A: 1.404 per 90m
Non-PK G+A contribution: 58.12%

1.562/2.563= 60.92
G+A: 1.562 per 90m
G+A contribution: 60.92%

 

For Maradona you can look the thread of Vegan10 about him, he has the seasons 76,77,78 covered completely, and I found season 79,80 in other thread about argentinian league also of Vegan10
About the assists I took them from the wiki in spanish the same for Pele.

The data is reliable, Maradona has the highest goal+assists contribution peak ever recorded

Non-PK goals + assists contribution:

Peak (three consecutive seasons in club and national team)
Diego Maradona: 69.58%
Pelé: 59.90%
Lionel Messi: 58.12%

Ten consecutive seasons only club:
Diego Maradona (76-86): 57.58%
Lionel Messi (10-20): 54.64%
Pelé (58-67): 52.95%

All Career (Club and National Team):
Diego Maradona: 51.28%
Lionel Messi: 50.19%
Pelé: 49.20%