English players Dual Nationality thread

England didn't do anything wrong. Southgate's job is to secure and preserve talent for the Three Lions, not for Jamaica. He owes us nothing. He violated no professional or moral duty.

If anything, the only party that should really be concerned about the risk of being a "one and done" is the player himself. Ainsley surely knew that was a risk and took it anyway because that is what he wanted to do - the gamble is worth taking for the chance to represent the side you really care about. Ainsley never wanted to represent Jamaica. He wanted to represent England. He'd probably take 2 England caps and a total of 40 minutes on the pitch for England in his entire career over 40 caps and thousands of minutes with Jamaica, because he doesn't care about Jamaica.

Kalvin Phillips told Jamaica in mid August, prior to his call-up, that he was just focused on his club career for now, and thus couldn't commit to international football with Jamaica at the moment. When Southgate called him up like a week later, he immediately accepted the chance. Why did he do this?

Because he didn't really want to play for Jamaica - it was a nice idea and maybe interesting to think about, but there never was much of a desire to make t happen. He really wanted to play for England. Jamaica is not that interesting to him. It never was and it never really will be.

These are the realities we have to start accepting about most of these players.

5 years ago I had a different perspective and would have been pretty butthurt about this too (and I was still mad about Sterling, that sting took years to go away), but that's not a rational response. We need to be realistic about the players we're recruiting and how they feel about Jamaica relative to England.

The truth is that most of them just aren't that interested in playing for us, such that even maintaining the mere CHANCE of representing the Three Lions (absent any caps at all) is more valuable than a dozen caps with Jamaica. We can't change those players' minds. We have to live with that.

Do there exist players who feel differently and value the chance to represent Jamaica more? Yes, absolutely. A few of them are in our side now and a few more will join before 2022. Some of these players are pretty good - a few even lower-level EPL quality. We should be focusing on those players who are committed and devoting zero energy to the others.

Recruiting is fine and essential to maintaining a quality player pool for JA and a successful national team. We just have to be realistic about it.

Plenty of good players in England are serious about representing Jamaica. They are generally not at the level of a Phillips, Greenwood or Maitland-Niles - young players that close to England choose England, invariably, as we've discussed. The Jamaica commits from England are usually going to be (a) older, or (b) not quite as good or (c) some combination of (a) and (b).

Those players are still pretty good, quality enough to significantly improve our national team and take us to World Cups. But if, in addition to those guys, we want a player like Phillips (a player good enough to be the top defensive midfielder in the Championship,which is in my view one of the 12 or so best leagues on the planet, at the age of 24) or Maitland-Niles (22 and good enough to be a rotation player at a club as storied as Arsenal, and good enough to draw $30M+ bids from upper-table sides and start weekly for them) or Greenwood (18 and leading the attack at one of the most storied clubs on the planet in probably the best league on the planet), he's going to need to be homegrown. Period. There's no way around this.

 

I wasn't having a dig at you. Just the other poster. Ur a fair reasonable poster

 

I think we sometimes overrate the personnel we have because of people like Sterling, Kane, Sancho Rashford etc. while forgetting that we don't have a single top class midfielder to speak of.

 

Henderson is top class for what he does. Winks is quality in my opinion. Our best midfielders are attacking midfielders

 

I posted that in the wrong thread :/

 

The taffys really are the most deluded bunch of hypocrites around. Some of the nonsense they come out with on other forums is bordering on delusional. I know I shouldn't get wound up by their tripe but things like 'England have been tapping up players long before wales have' or 'England have stolen other country's players ' even though they were born in England makes my blood boil. I really hope they get humiliated next year

 

Yeah I've never quite got that either. Why are we 'stealing' players when they were born and brought up here? In the last world cup, England were amongst the lowest numbers for fielding foreign born players (I think only sterling comes to mind and even he was brought up here).
Try not to take notice of that lot anyway. Like I said before, they had one good tournament 4 years ago and haven't quite climbed out of their own arses yet.

 

Rover, just stay off those forums before you give yourself a heart attack! Not worth the effort, there delusion is legendary. The next thing they will be saying is the USA has stolen every sportsman that has ever existed because everyone there has blood that belongs to other Countries except the Natives. It’s a nonsense argument but you get my drift at what they’re like if they are saying we have poached or stolen so many players, it’s insane thinking.

 

Will do.

 

What's the deal with this will smallbone who started for Southampton today then?
The Irish really rate him but he's English born. I'm surprised the FA havent asked about him scene as he's been playing alot of games for Southampton as of late. Anyone seen him play?

 

The irish are convinced he will get a call up for them

 

still no word on saka so I assume he's committed to England for now.

 

Pretty much all these Ireland dual national players get horrifically overrated by their fans - they get a lot more attention so anything remotely positive they do gets blown up out of proportion, merely playing a game is usually enough.

As for Smallbone, he seems alright (rubbish today though), would maybe make the under 21 side at some point. Not really sure what he has to his game that would make him worth England particularly fighting for though.

 

Fair enough. I agree about the dual players being overrated by them. It's almost as if they say 'oh he's English born, he must be better then anything we have' . If he ends up playing for Ireland, I really hope he doesn't suddenly come good in the next couple years.

 

How is noni maduieke doing at psv

 

You don’t need to add him to the duel thread mate, just ask in English abroad thread but last I saw he was doing well but their season starts tomorrow

 

Hes half Nigerian

 

Yeah but he’s not going to them as far as I’m aware. We only talk about cases here where there’s talk about players switching or coming to us etc, not how are players are performing, don’t tempt fate.

 

Apparently Bellingham has irish blood. The paddies are wetting themselves over him on the irish board. No chance

 

What are they serious that they think they can get him, lol

 

To be fair, Roverman grossly exaggerates the reaction on the YBIG forum, unless he's looking at another forum?

 

Yeah, just checked that forum out and they were not optimistic from the initial reactions I saw, so I’m guessing Rover saw it somewhere else?

 

I think he has a fetish for the anger he gets at the hypotheticals he invents in his head about dual nationals playing elsewhere.

"Filthy vultures from *insert country* are trying to get *insert player*. Wish they'd develop their own players instead of stealing our."

You never have to post again rover, we'll just fill in the blanks as appropriate for every possible combination of player and country, to save you the hassle!

 

Yes, this is quickly becoming very boring. Don't think anyone should deal with roverman's jingoistic ramblings when they are just based on random forums.

 

Filthy......can get to...... effing vultures. Yes maybe I exaggerated a bit. But the fact that yet ANOTHER of our duel players is being touted. Is England a sweet shop for every tom dick and Harry to come browsing? I will say no more