The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Psssht. Co-champions.
     
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  2. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea what you're talking about. Probably because neither do you.
     
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  3. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nebraska native here. Thanks for correcting the record. ;)
     
  4. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd argue there's also the small number of games.

    Fans (in any league system) will tolerate this--to a degree.

    At some point, you need to show that there's a plan in place to make it happen.
     
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  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27480 bigredfutbol, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    To the degree that tanking happens--and it seems largely an NBA thing--while I agree that it's wrong to assume that individual players make a conscious decision to throw a season.

    BUT...they can eventually 'check out' a bit when they realize that the decision has been made not to compete. I don't know how a coaching staff keeps the locker room once that becomes known.

    If soccer ever gets big & entrenched enough here for pro/rel to be economically feasible let alone optimal let alone necessary, that would make me very, very happy.

    I still like the idea of having MLS as a a closed league and the rest of pro soccer in a pro/rel pyramid...but I'm afraid MLS might have expanded beyond the point where we could do that.
     
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  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still wish we'd have had a Pennington that never got hurt ... that dude was ********ing great. That wrist injury took away his play-fake, which was insanely good and set up so much for him. Then he just had the niggling ones that never let him be what he could.

    So you agree that parachute payments reward failure. Nice of you to finally admit it.

    I asked this of you LONG AGO, and several other times, but never got an answer. Let's try again: How is it a weakness for a league to be set up so that all teams are able to address needs without having to worry about falling into irrelevancy?

    That's a shit example.

    Willfully ignoring what the actual price(s) of failure are in our leagues just shows you are, at best, a bad faith argumentative troll.

    Given it's substantial monies above anything they lesser competition they are going into has, it's quite the reward.

    Silly scenario ... you didn't give the banished teams a payout.
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think many people would object to pro-rel if it was economically feasible.
     
  8. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Funny because ALL of the teams in the US top league looked exactly the same as they normally do except.......well except nothing!
     
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  9. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Did you realise Liverpool have just one their FIRST Premier League title? First championship for 30 years! Leeds get a shot at it next year - exciting innit. 15 years ago Arsenal weren't expected to ever drop out the top 2 let alone become mid table 'also rans'! You do understand that (for obvious reasons to most) football clubs evolve slowly? Just to mention as well, of the three of last years promoted clubs that we were informed would ultimately just be cannon fodder and would simply go straight back down twisted up. This now gives us a predicament, if the two that survived were 'lucky' and therefore are simply destined for relegation next season do get relegated then what about the three that have been promoted this year? Surely they are next season's 'cannon fodder' and are destined only for relegation no? They can't all go down surely? And what of Leicester? One season wonders destined only for relegation (once there luck runs out) they MUST be relegated next year no? Burnley have been 'destined' for relegation for years now haven't they? They will surely get relegated next year too? And as for Palace! Hmm sounds like 15 clubs are going down next year, unless they have money of course, in which case they will easily walk the league Championship next season! :-D!
     
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  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey @Crawleybus, you need to respond to this prediction you made about Man U, then I'll pay attention to any new points you're making.

     
  11. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It's interesting how you react when confronted by an opinion different from the monoculture of this group.
     
  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Back in the day, when this thread was new-ish, there were a couple of very active posters who were rather stridently anti-pro/rel. Of course, that was back when we also had much more dogmatically/self-righteously "give me pro/rel or give me death" type posters, so it all sort of balanced out in a ridiculously hyperbolic way.
     
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  13. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Respond to what exactly?
     
  14. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that the Liverpool that are reigning European champions?
     
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  16. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    And? Is there a point? They have just won their first ever Premier League, their first Championship for THIRTY years! They have won two Champions Leagues in that time though, what has that got to do with the price of baked beans?
     
  17. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your prediction Man U would be happy to just take 7th this season, and your repeated insistence that the standings in the middle of the year proved that the big 6 weren't destined to finish in the top 6. Yet, as many many responses to you said, 5 of the big 6 finished in the top 6 and the 6th finished just 3 points off the pace in 8th, in what many of their fans are calling a horrible year for them.
     
  18. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this has to do what exactly with pro/rel in the US? Over the last 3 to 4 year's can you name me one top 5 pick in MLS that was anything more than a solid player(nothing special). So saying it's some sort of reward in MLS is just flat out wrong.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did we not just discuss yesterday that tanking in the NBA is a thing? So what's the point here?
     
  20. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Big 6!? What happened to the 'big 3'? Who is moving goalposts here? Besides I think Utd ARE delighted to finish 3rd... and only THIRTY THREE points off top spot too! lol. With Arsenal in eighth we are going to have to start calling it 'the big eight' now don't you think? ;-)
     
  21. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Misdirection, Imma go with that.
     
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  22. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Thank you for confirming just how meaningless games are for the bottom dwellers in closed league MLS.
     
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you equally willing to admit that late-season games for midtable teams are meaningless in open systems?
     
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  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #27499 M, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    "Competition committee could look into tanking
    According to Daniel Kaplan of The Athletic, a league source said it is “likely the competition committee will have to address this issue” of the Dolphins’ tank job."

    Oh.

    " The problem is, tanking is bad for the game but it can work for teams. The Houston Astros and Chicago Cubs did something similar, stripping the roster all the way down, and won championships after building back up."

    Oh.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/competitio...ns-tanking-but-what-can-nfl-do-210222607.html

    "The only way to prevent tanking in the NHL is to end the draft as we know it. The NHL’s lottery system under which the top three picks are all subject to pingpong ball drawings has made the process a more equitable one, but the draft still is designed to reward failure and organizations still stand to benefit more by losing more."

    Oh.

    "https://nypost.com/2019/02/07/overhauling-the-draft-process-would-solve-nhls-tanking-issue/
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    With European qualification, promotion playoffs and relegation, the number of teams that have meaningless games games at the end of the season is small. The problem that closed leagues have is that, absent anything to play for at the bottom of the league absent "better draft choices", they end up having oversized playoffs to sustain interest. Effectively their eggs are all in that one basket, a basket that directly affects the importance of the regular season.
     
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