If Juventus win the champions league and Ronaldo is an integral reason as to why they win it Scoring decisive goals in KO rounds at 35 years old Then it won't be lol worthy If he reaches the final that's 7 champions league finals He would've played in Really unprecedented stuff(combined with 20+ league goals) Voters can forgive faliures in the coppa Italia and rustiness in recent fixtures As it stands Its lewandowski,Neymar,Messi and de bruyne For some reason besides one fanatical Brazilian supporter on this sub thread no one seems to give Neymar the credit he deserves When he has been fit Neymar( has since 2017 )been operating at the peak level of a top 50 all timer This season is no exception Are fans going to wait until a few years after he has retired and cry about how underrated he was during his playing career when you could've easily appreciated his performances now?
If the CL quarter finals are not two leg ties, and PSG get knocked out then Neymar will have played 20 games in Ligue 1 and the CL this season, less than the 23 he did last season which is also less than the 27 he did in his first season at PSG. In that time he has 16, 20 and 25 goals in those seasons respectively. Through no fault of his own of course, but this is not as good as Bebeto at Depor IMO, let alone Top 50 all timer This is also assuming he tore it up in all of this matches, which of course he didn't.
I refuse to believe that if Messi wins the La Liga, he would win the Ballon D'or over Lewandowski if he wins the Bundesliga (+ topscorer) and UCL (+top scorer and maybe a great final performance). I would have to see it to believe it first. I'm a big believer in narratives and winner fatigue. The latter is already secured for Messi (maybe not Ronaldo as he hasn't won in a couple of years, but definitely a factor). All we're lacking is a strong narrative, and Lewandowski is best positioned to produce that.
Another point is Barca are now second favourites for the La Liga, yes they have a chance in CL but had not been on great form so things are definitely more open, plus Messi will likely barely end up in the 30s in all comps for goals as opposed to 50s in previous years..... my point is his case is much less strong than previous years.
80 Matches, 69 Goals, 37 Assists at PSG. 1.18 Non-PK Goals + Assists per 90. More than 5 dribbles per 90, probably more than 3 key passes per 90. More passes to the final third and to the penalty area probably. Elite ball progressor with either dribbling and passing. His deep stats are very similar to Messi ones, and even superior in many departaments. How was Bebeto superior to Neymar? Because he scored more goals or played more matches in a season? You can tell he was wasteful sometimes, but he put in good matches vs Liverpool, Bayern, Dortmund, Napoli etc.
This is crazy I think Neymar is and has been since 2017 vastly superior player to bebeto Bebeto was a striker Neymar since 2017 is a deep lying forward/winger Its like comparing rivaldos 24 la liga goals in 1998/99 to bebetos 29 la liga goals in 1992/93 Nobody would ever make that comparison One was just the finisher The others (rivaldo and Neymar)the main creative hub of their respective teams One of the top dribblers in Europe Good on the set piece Any neutral and objective analyst can see Neymar is a class above bebeto Neymar made the BD podium in 2015 Made the podium again in 2017 Neymar was also a frontrunner for the ballon dor in 17/18 until he was injured That was a really special season 18/19 was world class And now again in 19/20 You can't point to his relatively low goalscoring numbers as Neymar is not just about goals If we just take raw numbers he has 69 goals+39 assists in 80 appearences Almost 0.5 assist per game And we know also he is a prolific pre assister An all time great throughballer IMO And statistically at least the most prolific dribbler since 2017 More total dribbles than Messi in 2016/17(la liga) More dribbles per game than Messi in 2017/18(His season was curtailed through injury) More prolific doesn't necessarily denote greater. I know you will say He doesn't always dribble in the right areas He Isn't as direct as Messi was/is with his dribbles Or as robben was or even CR in his early 20s He is probably more direct/threatening than ronaldinho 05/06 who was more about the 1 vs 1 dribbles than the mazy runs (albeit he did more of that in 2004) Also More direct than hazard was in his prime If we say( and 99.99999% of people do) that Messi and Ronaldo are top 10 all timers Neymar finished on the podium twice in their era He is twice a podium player in an era featuring 2 all timers Once could be a fluke(ie griezmann) Twice definitely is not He deserves more respect IMO
Direct dribbler = 1. Progressive meters dribbling / total of meters dribbling 2. Dribbling lead to a shot creation. Neymar 1. 352 Yards / 593.9 Yards (59.2%) 2. 0.95 per 90 for a shot creation, 0.18 for a goal creation. Messi 1. 270.4 Yards / 449 Yards (60.2%) 2. 1.12 per 90 for a shot creation. 0.17 for a goal creation. Data for league. For CL is more or less the same proportion. They are both equally direct in fact. Mbappe this season is more direct. Vinicius is other example, more direct as well. Vinicius Jr this season. 1. 316.4 Yards / 406.8 Yards (77.7%) 2. 0.87 per 90 for a shot creation. 0.09 for a goal creation. Vinicius Junior is more direct than both Messi and Neymar. I would like to see some stats from R9 in his Barcelona time, he was still more direct than Vini and for sure his dribbling ended in a shot in much more ocasions than Neymar even in his best dribbling season at PSG (17/18). Would like to see peak Messi dribbling (2006-2013) too. Source: Statsbomb Data from 2017/2018 to this season.
Neymar is averaging more than 1 Non-PK Goals + Assist in Europe (including the UCL, could be averaging more if he ended up in some Bayern Munchen since the start... and not at secondary role at Barcelona), 3.7 shots per 90 (Messi 5.2), 4.9 completed dribbles per 90 (Messi 4.9) and 2.7 key passes per 90 (Messi 2.4), he is being a elite ball progressor with either dribbles or passing. All data from Opta/whoscored. How about Griezmann? It is not about podium bullshit, it is about productivity and numbers. Neymar is a offensive machine. 1273967683277590528 is not a valid tweet id If he was not the third option to score goals at Barcelona, he would be alongside Messi as a elite goalscorer, dribbler and playmaker, not sure if he doesn't had 0.70 Goals per 90 minutes in Europe or for Brazilian NT to be honest.
You need to relax mate Even though the heat in Rio de Janeiro maybe getting to your head. There is no such a thing as podium bullshit Its a reality that 'offensive machines' like Neymar care about It's a reality that happens every single year for the past 60 odd years A reality that helps fans who may of not lived during the relevant time period gauge how dominant certain players were during their own era Is it perfect? No Is whoscored/statsbomb/advanced algorithms/elo rankings/regurgitated Twitter facts perfect? No At the end of the day we've reached roughly the same conclusion without having used the same methods Neymar is and has been a phenomenal player A genuine great player when his mentality is right and he is fit No doubt about that Griezmann isn't exactly a one season wonder(a 2 season wonder maybe lol) Still the overriding point stands There is nothing unprecedented or uniquely impressive about making the ballon dor podium once It's been done many a time If you hit the right form at the right time(in a uncompetitive era or year) Doing it twice (like Neymar has done) demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt that the said player (ie Neymar) is one of the most dominant players of his era If you don't understand what is being said don't swear Ask for a clarification or Take a crash course in English instead I was literally agreeing with 90% of what you was saying
Someone who assists at 0.29 per 90 is nearly elite Whilst 0.30 is elite Sounds like it's a fictional criteria How about chances created over 10+ year period The creator of your tweet stipulates that the minimum criteria for an elite dribbler is 3 dribbles per game Sources Fbref Whoscored Transfermarket He lists R9 an elite dribbler Over the past 10-15 years Which sources did he use because it definitely wasn't any of those? Was this based on YouTube viewing or stats would genuinely like to know A 10 year comparison does no favours to Thierry Henry At league level over a 5 year stretch 2001/02 to 2005/06 Henry played 14903 minutes( roughly 166 matches ) 130 goals=0.78 per 90 57 assists= 0.34 At league level from 2013/14 to 2019/20 Neymar played 14577 minutes Roughly 162 games 115 goals=0.71 per 90 77 assists:0.47 per 90 Neymar 1.18 goal+assist per 90 Thierry Henry 1.12 goal+assist per 90 If we do a percentage involvement comparison it would lopsided in favour of TH14 One could also make the argument that Henry played in a proper competitive/balanced league. That is in fact your argument not mine Neymar joined a team in 2013 that had won the league with 100 points(all time record) the season before Neymar had joined Barcelona they arguably the most dominant season in the history of la liga Before neymar arrived Psg finished runner up in 2017(rare occurrence)but had previously dominated Psg for example (with ibrahimovic and co )won the league In 15/16 With 96 points and 102 goals Psg with Neymar has never scored more than 108 league goals(a trivial 6 goal difference) And more importantly psg with Neymar has never exceeded 93 points in a single league season The immediate history of Barcelona pre Neymar is arguably more impressive than with Neymar The immediate history of PSG pre Neymar is equally impressive as with Neymar Pre MSN Barcelona with Messi scored the most league goals in their history during 2011/12 with 114 goals Recorded the most league points in their history during 2012/13 with 100 points Real Madrid before Cristiano ronaldo scored 100 goals in the league only once in their entire history With him they did it 8 out of 9 seasons They also Recorded 100 points in la liga 11/12 Era defining players who left an indelible mark on the game I mean Neymar definitely is great but if he was that great he wouldn't just lead in progressive passes,dribbles per match He would be taking his team to the next level something he never did for Barcelona or Paris saint germain That is difference between a top 50 all timer and a footballing immortal The former plays a significant/important role in the history of their club/country The latter plays a primary role,raising the profile of their team on a domestic and continental stage But lets scrap that and take your tweet number 6097 as gospel Let's take lewandowskis 78 goals in Poland Luis suarez 123 goals in Uruguay and the Netherlands Neymars 136 goals for Santos Let's merge them together and make them look like superior players to Henry and shevchenco over a 10-15 year stretch Because it makes complete sense Those 3 players alone(Neymar,lewandowski and Suarez) scored 300~ goals in redundant leagues but tropiero with the IQ of a squirrel thinks its smart to merge them together
Shit festival argument of yours as typical, you can't stand for one point and explore it deeper because you have no depth in your thoughts as comparing Neymar as third option (and the player providing width in the attack) of scoring and assisting at Barcelona with Henry's first Arsenal option to score and assist, also scoring more PKs, or saying Neymar didn't elevate Barcelona or PSG (false), or missing his UCL record or vs big teams records. He is superstar and his numbers and offensive threat is only comparable to Messi in this generation (the package of ball progression, dribbling, playmaking/creativity, goalscoring). Again, Neymar is averaging more than 1 Non-PK Goals + Assist in Europe (including the UCL, could be averaging more if he ended up in some Bayern Munchen since the start... and not at secondary role at Barcelona), 3.7 shots per 90 (Messi 5.2, Cristiano 6.7), 4.9 completed dribbles per 90 (Messi 4.9, Cristiano 1.8) and 2.7 key passes per 90 (Messi 2.4, Cristiano 1.8), being a elite ball progressor with either dribbles or passing. And not, it not any day you can see players doing that in the French League or even in any league. All data from Opta/whoscored. PD Neymar's numbers at Santos in fact makes him look worse if something (I already said it many times maybe you lack some cognitive resources that is still talking about it and if I am really talking about Santos numbers even tho I should) and more Cristiano Ronaldo would never score at the same rate he scored at Real Madrid with that Santos Neymar played in, period. It just doesn't work like that (as Cristiano is proving at Juventus), as your a professional making false equivalances and analogies could say. La Liga was redundant as ******** for some time as well with a lot of teams losing their best player, in crisis and with a Real Madrid spending a lot. Neymar took it a part and scored 50% more without Messi. His scoring rate (whoscored) was phenomenal as the main creative guy, looked even more impressive and in a more balanced league era than Cristiano's best La liga sequence of matches in 09/10. What to think when someone feeds so many myths like a vibrant fanboy like you? That Neymar is not as direct (false), that Messi always makes the right decision in matches (false), that Neymar would not improve or improved Barcelona or PSG (false) and so on. What is exactly TOP50 level? Neymar skillset and influence is only comparable to Messi in this era. Cristiano Ronaldo can't touch Neymar's playmaking ability and especially creativity, he was never as good as dribbler since 2010 (if he was between 2007-2010), let alone Messi that is a better goalscorer than Neymar. If Cristiano Ronaldo was playing as a TOP10 in his peak, so is Neymar. You are just another Brazilian hater like most Portugueses. I know Cristiano Ronaldo is like a God in Portugal, that is you are ultra sensitive. lol. Now, you can easy talking and lost more of your time making a long, basic fake and wasteful post to hide the fact Neymar may be better than Cristiano in the overall play and is playing at the highest level, a level of a TOP10 all timer usually play.
Reverse psychology You're digresssing and none of this is relevant I mean you are so blatantly biased in favour of Brazilian players that it has to be pointed out someone could write a 200 word post talking about 15 different players from 15 different countries and you would literally quote 5 words he said about a Brazilian and completely ignore the rest I think fans like you are really cancerous and actually irrelevant Not all Brazilians are like you fortunately 160,000 of them took part in a poll that had neymar down as the 11th greatest Brazilian football player since Pele https://www.espn.com/soccer/brazil/...ot-in-top-10-of-brazils-post-pele-greats-poll Those who finished ahead were Ronaldo Ronaldinho Romario Zico Rivaldo Socrates Kaka Falcao Careca I mean these are Brazilian fans just like you? Or maybe they are fake undercover Portuguese i don't know They are probably also 'casual fans' not enlightened by advanced algorithms Rinse and repeat Tropiero knows more about Pele than Pele himself I mean you literally called an incident I quoted verbatim from his autobiography a "folk tale" The arrogance lol And of course Tropiero armed with his advanced data(like a gun) is ready to shoot down 160,000 Brazilians who would laugh hysterically at suggestions that Neymar is top 10 all time Let's keep this on topic: You were doing well and I generally agree that Neymar should be in the running for the 2020 ballon dor And CR is definitely not a candidate unless he does something truly remarkable in the champions league
I am no expert on Neymar but from a distance he seems a player that so far in the second half of his career has underachieved massively, whilst some decent enough seasons over the last few years in patches, nothing great and nothing near what would expect as someone who was touted as a multiple Ballon d'or winner.
I don't know, he has looked very good almost every time I've seen him play. He has the stats to back it up as well. Bottom line is though, he is no where near durable enough at the moment. He needs to be able to play 40+ games a season if he's going to be contending for the Ballon D'or on a consistent basis.
Neymar has never been truly great league player in the business end of any league season he played In Europe Not even once 2013/14 A good start for a rookie With 6 goals+8 assists from August to December 2013 From January to may 2014 A paltry 3 league goals+2 assists 2014/15 1st half From August to December 2014 11 goals+3 assists 905 league minutes 1.39 goal+assist per 90 2nd half From January to may 2015 1646 minutes 11 goals+6 assists 0.93 goal+assist per 90 2015/16 1st half From August to December 2015 13 goals+8 assists 1256 minutes 1.51 goal+assist per 90 2nd half From January to May 2016 10 goals+8 assists 1800 minutes 0.9 goals+assist per 90 2016/17 There's nothing to say here really He failed to score in 20 out of 30 la liga games(66% of matches) Same pattern extends to the champions league (Groupstage vs KO) When the pressure is on Neymar is a completely different player Now This is the level neymar needs to aspire to be considered truly great The business end of the campaign where legends are made Thierry Henry January to may 2003 13 PL goals(1 pen)+17 assists 1530 minutes 1.76 goal+assist per 90 Cristiano ronaldo January to may 2013 20 la liga goals(2 pen)+8 assists 1249 league minutes 2.02 goal+assist per 90 Lionel Messi Jan to may 2015 28 la liga goals+13 assists 1935 minutes 1.94 goal+assist per 90 Lionel Messi January to May 2012 1890 minutes 33 la liga goals(9 penalty)+8 assists 1.95 goal+assist per 90 I mean these guys are so far ahead of Neymar when it matters that it beggars belief Neymar for Barcelona or PSG doesn't touch this Doesn't see it forget about touch Now you ask why is Neymar a top 50 all timer IMO Neymar has been so devastating now for 5 consecutive years in the champions league groupstages,the first semester of league campaigns and the groupstages of the world cup that he makes the grade But that's as far as he can go When I see him carrying the title charge to the final days of a league campaign When I see him score non tapin goals in the champions league KO stages( or make genius assists ) When I see him carrying his team and making decisive plays at decisive moments than he can be more than that If he continues doing what he's doing he will never exceed this Mark That's my take in a nutshell
My argument he has not stepped up in big CL games for PSG or Brazil in WC, he may do in August and prove me wrong re CL, its one thing looking in good in Ligue 1 where PSG are completely dominant, but another doing it in the business end of CL, WC or Copa America.
Yes, because he scored more in a tougher league for a team that didn't have the decks absolutely stacked in their favour in said league. It's not just that Neymar hasn't played as many matches. Robben and Ribery were also very injury prone. It's that Neymar has missed the business end of the season, each season of the last 3 (he could still get the KO stages of this season's CL). It's not just absolute number of games, it's which games too.
Bebeto was not a striker. Romario, Ronaldo and Claudio were the strikers during this time for both Brazil and Deportivo Everything else you're saying in between is what I'm saying e.g. Neymar was having a world class season until... Neymar was a frontrunner for this and that until... Neymar isn't an 'All Time Great Throughballer' either though. Griezmann finished in the Ballon D'or podium twice as well.
He has. He had a great match vs Real Madrid when he completed 13 dribbles. Without Neymar they also lost that year (UCL KO 2018). When he missed, Mbappe who was already a world class player and his team couldn't beat a very weak ManU. This year he himself as the best player against a on fire Dortmund (with Mbappe out in the second match). PSG ended in the first above the ones of Liverpool last season and Real Madrid this year in the group stage. Even tho Real Madrid played bad in France, they are winning 2-0 against PSG in the Bernabeu stadium, with Neymar in the match ended 2-2. Also PSG usually scored much more goals with Neymar on the pitch in the French League. He pretty much improve PSG. Also he was a key piece for Barcelona and a creative hub on the left more than only goals, assists or dribbling. Of course Barcelona is weaker without Neymar as none of the expensive players and world class players Barcelona had like Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann were able to compensate Neymar. He was a integral part and key part in the UCL 14/15 and in La Liga 15/16, especially. Also he played well the WC2014 and when he was out (Thiago Silva out too) Brasil lost 7-1 to Germany. He was dominant in WC2018 and even generate the biggest expected goal and assist per 90 being one of the best ball progressors of the tournament, he had 7 key passes more some shots against Belgium (one of in the last minute with Cortouis saving Belgium). Neymar was out of form in that WC btw. He played well vs Colombia in 2015 (the only Brazilian to played well) and won the Olympics (more important to Brazilians than some random Copa Américas) and the Confederations Cup (breaking the Spanish team) His record is good with the Brazilian NT and he had positive impact on the team. Neymar is great.
No, Bebeto never reached Neymar's level at PSG (or Barcelona when Messi was out), never. If it is only scoring that we can say Cavani was also better than Neymar or Icardi. Neymar's influence is not only in the goals he scored, he had a role at Barcelona and he exceed his role, he was not a focal point of team in terms of scoring and assisting, he still was very significative doing that. He impacted the game much more than his numbers suggest. Neymar carrer at PSG for numbers and influence (playmaking, carrying/dribbling and scoring, all together) are something of only great footballers can do. Put Bebeto at this PSG and he would as fine as Cavani, perhaps a bit more well-rounded, but he would never reach Neymar's or Mbappe's level. Romário can do much better, instead... but only if he wanted... still Neymar covers way more yards and zones than both of them, Romário or Bebeto. 1263766400079785985 is not a valid tweet id 1263766403082928129 is not a valid tweet id Neymar is a elite playmaker (you can name some better passers probably, even tho Neymar is still a elite passer, but his creativity is def top notch and one of the best of all time), elite dribbler and has a elite goalscoring instincts (even tho he is not a great finisher himself, he has great off-ball movement), that is what he can offer. He can deliver everywhere, he is that type of player. Maybe even Maradona wasn't that type of player (ej Barcelona, Napoli in some seasons), even Ronaldinho wasn't (ej PSG) etc... People don't like when I talk about his Brazil phase, but the most dominant Neymar was there (as some think the most dominant Maradona was in Argentinos Juniors), when Neymar was responsible for everything, played in many zones of the pitch (and not only on the left like in Barcelona)... that was some of the most well-rounded runs of any attacker you can think in any league. He was the dribbler/ball carrier of the team, the playmaker of the team and the scoring of the team. He was castrated at Barcelona imo and he accepted a secundary role to accomodate Messi and Suarez and his only PSG season he was free of injuries was in the 2017/8 his best season as the main man. Guys like Figo at Sporting never reach Neymar's level at Santos or PSG. Probably never reached highest Neymar's level at Barcelona, and never reached the same level of Neymar with his NT (Figo had how many goals or assists to compare with Eusébio or Cristiano Ronaldo with Portugal's shirt?) Neymar is underrated figure according the overall level of play. That are some of the best numbers of the last 25 years. Total 2013/14 - 2016/17 Barcelona and Brazil 133 Goals (119 Non-PK Goals) 92 Assists 18619 minutes 1 Assist or Non-PK Goal each 88 minutes 156 Matches 8.20 Rating (La Liga, UCL, CA, WC) 1.08 Goals+Assists per 90 minutes (1.02 NPK Goals+Assists per 90) Total 2017/2018 - 2019/2020 PSG and Brazil 80 Goals (61 Non-PK Goals) 50 Assists 8736 minutes 1 Assist or Non-PK Goal each 78.7 minutes 72 Matches 8.65 Rating (Ligue 1, UCL, WC) 1.34 Goals+Assists per 90 minutes (1.14 NPK Goals+Assists per 90) and Neymar is not only about numbers... https://opta.b-cdn.net/app/uploads/2019/08/1819_progressive_carries_p90_top5-1400x1500.png https://public.tableau.com/profile/...ogressionStyleAcrossEurope/Sheet1?publish=yes https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-sports-analytics/jsa200432 His Barcelona's role playing to support Messi and his injuries lately damaged his reputation in some hard way he can't repare if not by literally carrying that PSG to the UCL title (sure a harder work than what Cristiano did at ManU or Real Madrid or Messi did at Barcelona) or Brazil to the WC (very very unlucky with his injury and match circunstances in 2018), but he was playing in some of the highest level since he is in Europe.
Bebeto was not primarily a scorer, he wasn't the focal point of the attack. He was a well rounded support striker like Griezmann (2016-18), had one of the best shot techniques in history, very good dribbler too, great free kick, very good passing and vision - he was nothing like Cavani btw. I wasn't saying he is greater than Neymar, I was saying Neymar's collection of 3 half seasons at PSG are not worthy of being top 50 of all time. His whole career I can understand, but carlito's initial statement was that his time at PSG has been a top 50 all timer peak, which is what I was responding to. His time at PSG hasn't been as good as Bebeto's time at Depor. You could use Del Piero 95-98, Raul 96-00 and several other examples of players who are not top 50 all timers and have had a better run than Neymar's PSG run. Bebeto was just an arbitrary name, a talented guy that doesn't break the top 50 either.
You can put Bebeto, Raul and Griezmann in the same group, they don't had the same class of Neymar neither are complete as the Brazilian number 10. Del Piero was the closest. You can put Neymar there with peak Del Piero, Ronaldinho, Robben, Hazard, Salah, Figo. For me: 1º Neymar - Ronaldinho (2004-2007) 1.5º Rivaldo, Baggio (Juventus) 2º Del Piero (1996-1998) - Robben (Bayern) - Figo 3º Salah - Hazard - Ribery I think Rivaldo also peaked higher than Figo but maybe not the same class of peak Ronaldinho or Neymar, I think I would put Rivaldo and Baggio as 1.5. I don't rate Raul, Griezmann or Bebeto as high as peak Del Piero, Robben or Figo, probably more on Salah's, Mané's level, Hazard level. I need to think about it even more, but I consider Neymar to be a TOP50 level player, definitely.
I think Neymar from 2015-2020 has had a comparable run to prime ADP Prime ADP had a greater CL KO run in like 1 season but that's it Neymar doesnt touch the hattrick vs Monaco in 98 or backheel vs Dortmund in 97 Roberto baggio doesn't even compare to this Heck even Diego Maradona doesn't compare (even in the inferior UEFA cup he never had a iconic performance or goal as this) But that's really not all there is to it? I agree its very hard to gague how much he has improved as a player when he only plays half seasons Not only that but PSG literally steamroll ligue 1 opponents before he came When hes playing When hes injured Neymar 17/18 missed 18 league matches in 17/18(out of a possible 38) 47% of campaign missed PSG still won ligue 1 on match day 33 with 5 games to spare https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43776650 Between matchday 1 and matchday 33 PSG scored 103 goals in ligue 1 3.12 goals per match Anything else after match day 33 is really just stat padding and pointless so wont be including it in the breakdown The league was decided on matchday 33 with 5 games left and like 17 points between 1st and 2nd place In matches Neymar played(all comps) PSG 17/18 scored 104 goals in 30 appearences 3.4 gpg PSG 17/18 Without neymar 59 goals in 21 appearences 2.8 gpg Take into consideration also that alot of those goals with Neymar on the field came against djion(10 goals) Djion conceded 73 goals in ligue 1 Metz (5 goals) Conceded 76 goals in ligue 1 Toulouse(7 goals) Relegated With neymar AND mbappe on the bench PSG thrashed 2nd place Monaco 7-1 to clinch ligue 1 on match day 33 Remind me the last time this ever happened in a top tier European league? That in the 2nd semester(ie business end) of the season a first place team annihilates the 2nd place by a 6 goal margin Manchester city smashed Liverpool 5-0 in the first semester of 18/19 Barcelona destroyed Madrid 5-0 in the first semester of 10/11 Did the same thing again in 2015/16 Barcelona 5-1 madrid 18/19 First semester(again) Encounters in the second half of the season between top tier teams are usually if not always much tighter because there is more at stake Managers play more tactically astutely That 7-1 crushing of Monaco is really without precedent PSG did not even need their 2 best players to destroy the 2nd best team in France You know if that wasnt enough of a beatdown PSG 17/18 destroyed Monaco 3-0 again in the coupe de ligue final Again without Neymar!!! Monaco the 2nd best team in France conceded 10 goals in 2 matches vs PSG 17/18 without Neymar even on the bench someone has to be smoking crack to think achievements in this league can be directly compared to those in la liga,EPL or even Bundesliga 12-15 Neymar will be judged on what he did and didn't do in la liga,international competitions and champions league (Groupstage or KO) And he has done alot already IMO Or ar least enough to qualify as top 50 all time He has 5 world class club seasons 30+ CL goals and 20~ assists 60+international goals And is only 28 years old(maybe has just reached the halfpoint of his career) 371 career goals at 28 years old For some added perspective Romario was 28 years old in 1994 At the end of the 1993/94 club season Romario had scored in his career 262 goals+104 assists in 358 appearences: 1.02 goal+assist per game https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romário Neymar has today at 28 years old( albeit for high scoring teams but also playing in a deeper position) 371 goals+ 223 assists in 592 appearances 1.00 goal+assist per game Identical Fanboys can fight over the 0.02 difference Like neymar Romario had played for the Brazil NT In Brazil and in la liga The eredivisie then( 80s and 90s)was probably as ligue 1 is today 5-7th best league in Europe So at least we are roughly comparing like for like I cant see any difference at club level If someone is saying romario in WC 94 was close to Maradona 86 than that changes everything IMO he was solid but nowhere to that level in WC 94 For example If neymar scored 1 goal vs Colombia in WC14 taking his tally to 5 they'd be roughly on par They are the same in talent with different skillets One should not forget that Romario also played for teams that completely dominated without him PSV won Eredivisie 89/90 and romario missed 14 league matches out of 34 https://www.transfermarkt.com/romar...89&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= Similar to the Neymar situation in 17/18 Romario joined the dream team in 93/94 They were already playing spectacular football prior to his arrival Won the European cup in 91/92 And always Had the best attack in la liga 1990/91(74 goals) 1991/92(87 goals) 1992/93(87 goals) With romario 1993/94 Barcelona scored 91 league goals Just 4 more So there is no stratospheric rise in goalscoring Barcelona 95/96 scored 72 goals in la liga Barcelona 96/97 scored 102 goals in la liga Reason for this explosion: A hurricane called ronaldo de lima To briefly summarise i concur with Tropiero Neymar is elite just not as elite as he thinks he is Tier 1 Pele Tier 2 Zico/R9 Tier 3 Garrincha/Romario/didi Tier 3.5 Neymar Tier 4 Rivaldo/falcao/Ronaldinho/rivelino/tostao Tier 5 Kaka/Socrates/Careca Could add all those 1960s santos legends that were covered in other threads but dont have enough information to make definitive statements Neymar is in good company and to return back to the thread: Neymar is amongst the 5 top performers in the world for the 5 season in a row
Neymar has been world class in three pockets of time (last 3rd of 2014/15, first 3rd of 2015/16 and first half of 2017/18). Nearly all the players you've mentioned there has something Neymar doesn't - a season, or multiple seasons where they managed to put it together from start to end. All did it in much tougher conditions too i.e not for PSG in the French Ligue 1 (the Ligue 1 in itself is actually fairly tough for a forward, but PSG are so much better than everyone else that it doesn't matter that much).