The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The size of the U.S.A would certainly make a single league difficult.
     
  2. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    There is a reason why these leagues are not very popular!
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Liga MX not being popular would be news to people on this continent....
     
  4. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Don't be daft, I doubt anybody outside North America can even name a club from league mx, it's my understanding that American Football is quite popular in North America no? Despite the huge wealth and 'push' the US give it it's practically unknown outside of the US though. Look I am not saying you HAVE to implement pro/rel but if you want US football to become globally popular you will need to change the format to make it more interesting.
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But Liga MX has (well, had) pro/rel and you just said its not popular outside North America, so how is pro/rel going to help MLS become popular?

    Or maybe its more proof that league format isn't the driver of league popularity?
     
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  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Agreed: the argument that if Barcelona, Liverpool, and Bayern were to go through with this Superleague proposal that fans would no longer be interested in them is pretty ludicrous.
     
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  7. :confused:They're unaware of it?o_O
    Hasnot foxynews reported about it?:cautious:
    I'm sure an Orange guy tweeted about it and you know ''if it's Orange it's brilliant"
     
  8. I can name a few...Pachuca, America, Chivas, Azul something??
     
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  9. So why, despite the dangling lure by the American/Asian investors of billions more than the CL offers, are they hesitant to jump and bite? It doesnot make sense.
    Maybe this has to do with it:
    https://books.google.nl/books?id=Ri...QAQ#v=onepage&q=euro superleague huge&f=false

    EU Sports Law and Breakaway Leagues in Football
    Door Katarina Pijetlovic

    upload_2020-1-7_0-51-28.png

    As I said before, call their bluff and threaten them with fall in line with a cut in the farce of spots without merit or leave now with no return possible.
     
    M repped this.
  10. Anyway, a superleague goes from the premise national feelings are dwindling.

    (https://books.google.nl/books?id=SZ...QAQ#v=onepage&q=euro superleague huge&f=false
    Performing National Identity: Anglo-Italian Cultural Transactions
    geredigeerd door Manfred Pfister, Ralf Hertel
    [​IMG]
    upload_2020-1-7_1-32-51.png

    This was the perception about a decade ago. We all know nationalism is on the rise again and with it the longing to pamper your own identity. Brexit is the ultimate example of it. So what a decade ago seemed inevitable now turns into a major hazard. With the UK leaving the EU also the british clubs are cut off from the benefits of the free, open European borders.
    What at the moment is embedded into memorandi of understanding with UEFA and the EU, giving non EU clubs like from Russia reasonable access to the European market is questionable for break away clubs, especially from the UK. It's unlikely a break away league without the backing by the UEFA will be facilitated by the EU as the UEFA clubs are. Bayern etc. know they can't risk that. They're clubs that must generate a constant flow of money to survive. Interuptions in that flow for just a year or two will be fatal, given the expenses they have.
    The US/Asian investors have billions to spend, but they cannot fund the spending of twenty clubs for two years or more to bridge the transition and then not knowing if that transition is going to work.
    To make clubs do the jump the investors have to pay more than what the 20 clubs current revenues are.
    The big caveat in this all is the status of the players in this transition process.
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you mean "practically unknown"? It's been relatively popular on TV in the UK since the 1980s and it's even more popular in places like Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands.
     
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  12. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Brexit is definitely going to have a major effect on English football.
    We're talking about different things here: you're talking whether or not the superclubs see enough of an advantage for it to be worth it, whereas I am saying should that happen, they'll still be superclubs with commensurate followings.
     
  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I last checked (granted, this was over a decade ago), more than one-third of the world's national top flights crowned their champions by some form of playoffs.

    Re: Asia, playoffs are definitely in use in Australia and India and I'm pretty sure there are a number of others.
     
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  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was going with the general public definition of continents, not FIFA's, so I was counting Australia separate from Asia. :D
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I found a few:

    Australia, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Dominican Republic, Mexico, USA, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, Panama, India, Australia, New Zealand.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus a number of South American countries play a "playoff" between the winners of their split seasons to determine their ultimate winner.
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most do. In fact most Spanish speaking North American countries do as well.
     
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  18. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can keep saying this all you want. It's not true.
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're suggesting any league determines its champion via playoffs is a mockery?

    Wow, that's a lot of sports!
     
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  20. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of being daft ...

    This has already been proven beyond false. This is beyond "being daft"

    No, we won't. If the biggest and most popular clubs were in Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay then the Copa Sudamerica would be the most popular club tournament in the world and the world would watch like they do the CL.

    There are a HUGE NUMBER of leagues that use pro/rel that are less globally relevant than the MLS.

    .... or that they'd not care about their respective national pyramids anymore
     
  21. I think, actually I'm pretty sure of it, they're superclubs because of the star players they have. I define superclubs in the sense of a reach worldwide, apart from their national/European based following. By a break away from the national leagues it depends on how things would develop with the SL. One thing non Europeans/citizens of huge countries like the USA/India/China fail to grasp is that Europe isnot a country. So what is possible in the States, a league covering the whole country, isnot in the EU/Europe. There isnot a single FA for the EU/Europe that can decide about competitions.
    Ceferin had far reaching plans on the table spring 2019, but had to back down fast after a storm of criticism and talked it down to ideas etc. Part of that plan was to make the national leagues second to the UEFA cup competitions and take the weekends away from the leagues. He really must have been smoking some weird stuff to even think that would have a chance with the leagues themselves. He even had forgotten about the EU/memberstates calling football a cultural heritage and that idea would have been bombed by the individual member states immediately.

    So, under those circumstances going rogue as a current superclub, it remains to be seen if they can generate the same money they do now and thus keep their attractiveness for star players. Those non Euro fans are for the overwhelming majority star gazers, not club fans. Stars gone, superclub status gone.

    What you claim only applies in the situation things stay the same as they are now.
     
  22. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Why would the stars be gone?
     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think soccer fans in the US know a lot more about Europe than you think.

    For instance, there are 7 countries in Europe: England, Spain, Germany, England, Italy, England and Paris, and everyone of them is better than MLS.
     
  24. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England including Ireland of course.
     
  25. The huge bills these players present cannot be sustained in a situation where the superclubs are in a twilight zone.
    A transition time of two/three years with a drop in revenues is not an illusion given the legal international issues that will emerge. When you're out of the league and cannot play in the SL yet, how do you pay them and most importantly how does not being able to play benefit the stars?

    When one talks about 20 superclubs, your talking about 10 billion a year in costs, while the income side of the equation isnot secured yet. The investors can pony up a couple of billions to try to bridge a gap, but how far does their purse reach?
    Just the tv rights are already a big question mark. Broadcasters have to pay more for the same product and have to ask their subscribers to pay more than they do now?

    Stars have huge personal sponsor income and these are on the premise they're visible. You cannot go into a twilight zone, especially if it also jeopardizes your national team place.
     

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