2019 U17 World Cup cycle

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by kba4life1, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    *Bello for Lleyva at #10
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If there's only one thing that US fans over-react to, its results at the U17 level. Results at the U17 World cup...………..forecast nothing in terms of future senior national team success. For the US or any other nation.

    Remember, this is only one coach's small selection of prospects from a small sliver of the player pool.

    Since 1991, only 25 U17 World Cup players have gone on to win at least 10 caps for the USMNT. Average about 2 per cycle. In fact, there's huge turnover by the time they're U20s.

    Results at this level, are nice.......but secondary. So the question should be: Do we have future core USMNT pieces from this U17 team? Maybe. I think we possibly do. Still lots of development to go.

    Maybe I'm biased. I'm old enough to remember when we measured U17 cycles by the number of future professionals in it. Not be the number of future USMNTers in it.
     
  3. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    U17 results don’t matter but how you got to those results does. Somehow these losses all looked like the worst of the full national team and that’s troubling
     
  4. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    The system is producing players -- as evidenced by the fact that players are performing at the club level. The "system" still needs to improve a good bit, but I don't think that was the problem with the performances of Canada and the US.
     
    Lookingforleftbacks repped this.
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're drawing way too many conclusions from an experiment w/ 15-17 yr olds who are being told before the games that keeping possession is of the utmost importance not winning. Like w/ the senior team, most go back to their clubs and almost immediately look better.

    Vis a vis KHF, what we're see is he's not a cb, he was just force-fit into the position due to our perceived weakness there and his ability to keep position out of the back. I don't think he had a TO in spite of all the team's fiddling. But that shouldn't be the top priority it should be defense. At fb or wing for his club he's displayed smoothness on the ball, a nasty left foot, vision, and speed.
     
    Lookingforleftbacks repped this.
  6. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    #1781 Bob Morocco, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
    Basically relative talent, its distribution, and the opposition’s approach should determine the gameplan.

    Relative talent: not many players who really standout at this level, depending on the opponent we were likely to be facing a talent deficit and not likely to be able to impose any gameplan on every opponent.

    Talent distribution: across the main categories.

    1. Attack: At forward there was no older standout, Pepi has tools and can be good but has not consistently thrived in this environment. AOC is useful but not a real difference maker. Reyna is, but he’s not a guy who raises his teammate’s games, he doesn’t contribute as much control to the game as he could. Yow is kind of a head-down try-hard (somewhat like Arriola) who occasionally hits a good shot cutting in. Busio is an advanced connector (on a good day) and makes some good runs, hits some good balls, but he’s not a high level problem solver. Everyone else is fresh legs at best.

    2. Midfield: @Susaeta said Levya and Saldana are redundant, which is true. Enough has been said about their combativeness. Levya could be a good defense to attack connector but that’s just one link in a chain. Saldana has less range and guile. Kayo is a box-to-box player who doesn’t add much control but can cause problems on the move.

    3. Defense: KHF hits a great ball and reads attacks ok at this level but is undersized, probably a natural narrow, Lahm-like FB. Gray is more physical but also not a natural CB, although with some experience there. Scally has been out and despite being a battler he is still prone to rash decisions and is not the best on the ball or passing in buildup. Armour and Carrera looked competent for this level.

    4. GK: not really a worry coming in, maybe neither of the guys are what we would call smooth on the ball.

    Opposition Gameplans: maybe we could expect Japan and the Netherlands to take similar approaches while Senegal would be more likely to play on the break.

    Synthesis: this team was not suited to generating much offense against a set defense or controlling and creating in the final third. There was no Ledezma or Mendez or even Pomykal. Levya and Saldana could theoretically help us gain control in the first 2/3rds of the field but then what happens in attack. Maybe we could have focused on Gio and Bello out wide sending in service to Pepi, the RW crashing the backpost, and Busio. Overall there was not enough chemistry to do that consistently. If players can’t correctly collectively execute passes at the right time and with the right weight then moving into the right shape and making the right rotations isn’t going to be enough.

    Due to all of the above this team would have been better suited to working more on breaking effectively. As teams get better organized there are less chances to break so when there is one it has to be exploited and we failed on that front. Another solution is to let the press be a playmaker. We did not have the type and quality of player required to control and create from the final third. That can be done with a couple different talent mixes in the front 6 (think City’s vs Liverpool’s). We had a LB, a LW, and a ST who could work but key pieces were missing for this level. Any solution was probably hamstrung by the quality of CB depth.
     
  7. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    KHF had a dangerous turnover in each game.
     
  8. Futboldad22

    Futboldad22 New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Nov 13, 2018
    Defining insanity in terms of US Youth Soccer- continuing to rely on same players and expecting better results... most disappointing last night was the lack of any appearance of desire, intensity or hunger. For the most part, these same kids have been coddled by US Soccer for 2+ years while good talent and good kids have not been given a fair evaluation. So much of it is due to politics- at the local and national level.
     
    SCSAutism and ussoccer97531 repped this.
  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After being unimpressed by most of these players I wonder if the selection process is based on who is pushing for the player rather than the actual true quality.
    As an ex-coach of youth teams, I have seen this happen many times. kids do very well at the 12-13 and even after there is a dip in performance they continually get selected because they are already in the system.
     
    Futboldad22 repped this.
  10. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    part of why having a u15 national team seems like it may be counterproductive
     
  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Ten points I'll make about the ending of this U-17 cycle.

    1. This is the deserved result in this tournament. Fluke results can always happen in youth tournaments, and we've had plenty, but this age group has been bad for years. I remember watching a U-15 tournament that they won, and they had no business coming anywhere close to winning that tournament. Complete fluke. They don't possess the ball, they don't have enough offensive difference makers. The best players in this age group mostly play the least important positions on the field.

    2. It's a weak age group. Make no mistake about it. Since we started producing better players (starting with the '97 age group), I see '02 as the absolute worst. '99 might be somewhat close, but '02 takes the cake.

    3. I think we should be judging these age groups each individually. Some teams are going to be better than others. The sky should not be falling about our youth teams because the worst age group played to their level. People are going to be mad for the sake of it without even having a clue about this age group, but I think there should be some more pointed perspective about this cycle.

    4. Wicky has absolutely not shown he's a good U-17 coach. I don't care about his prior resume. It doesn't buy him better results with this team. A guy who coached in the Champions League has been out-coached by youth coaches since he got into the job. He doesn't know the player pool well. Being the coach of this team requires a lot of scouting of the player pool. Is this guy out there every week at DA games? His player selections look like that of an unknowledgeable fan. This is the worst selected roster for a big youth tournament that I've seen since I've started following, and thats saying something. Thats said with no hyperbole.

    You also could've seen it coming all along. Bad results and bad player selection isn't going to lead to good results. He also was very open about the fact that he didn't want to make many changes when he got the job. I don't know why. The results have been bad all cycle. This team hasn't scored more than 3 goals all cycle against a half-decent team, and loses nearly every game this play against good competition. Did he even bother to watch the games they played before he got the job?

    5. Wicky belongs nowhere near another US youth team. He completely ruined the 2019 U-17 WC cycle. I liked the job the interim manager Tsakiris was doing prior to Wicky's hiring. I hope he's the U-17 coach next cycle. I've heard and read very good things about his coaching. This team wasn't likely to advance far in this tournament, and this was obvious a year or two ago. Having a tough group doesn't help either, but Wicky is supposed to be the best coach in this tournament. He didn't coach the team to play to its strengths. You wouldn't have known he was a coach who coached in the UCL.

    6. Even if he was a bad coach for the job, you can say that the guy wasn't very good, and hopefully he parts ways with US Soccer quickly and amicably. There have been bad youth coaches that part with the organization, and then no one criticizes them that much in retrospect. However, the way he's treated some of his better players this cycle (Las, Ocampo-Chavez) in a big showcase tournament for them is rather despicable to me, and I have no respect for his coaching. I don't think I've disliked the coaching of a manager we've ever had at youth level more than Wicky. I consider him the youth level-Klinsmann.

    7. I find that there’s been a lack of info on the players due to the lack of games this cycle. A lot of people don't know the pool well. I also don't blame them because the federation has done a poor job of showcasing the age group this cycle. The fans simply don't have much info, unless they look hard for it. They get a lot of their info from people who have ulterior motives to telling the truth about the age group. A certain few sources are being told by agents or the camp of some of these players to promote certain players, regardless of whether they've earned it. That's how you get such divergent opinions on certain players. I'm not going to get specific with any names, but it's there and very transparent.

    I've had parents and agents contact me before because of what they see about my posts on this website. My philosophy has always been the same with these situations. I'm a fan, not a promoter. I'm not rude towards any of these people, but I'm not going to praise any player (regardless of what I'm asked to do by the camp of any player), unless I would want to do this without the interaction with the person in the player's camp.

    It's clear some of these sources that are promoting certain players don't even know much about these players, but they are being used as a propaganda arm for certain players, and I feel that it fools fans about certain players. If you are going to be a journalist (which is what these US Soccer related influential twitter accounts are in effect), you should try to inform, not spread propaganda that mostly is bad information.

    8. As to the specific players, there were a shocking amount of non-prospects on the team. I can't remember a team that had so many players that were so far out of their depth on a "best in the age group" roster, and then you have to consider how weak the age group is, and that it had comparatively fewer good players in the whole pool.

    Non-prospects: Anderson, Armour, Saldana, Kayo, Dobbelaere, Yow, Jasson
    Fringe non-prospects: Odunze, Carrera, Busio, Dietz (I'm being generous here due to lack of viewings)

    Thats over half the team. You can't have success with such a bad roster. I don't want to criticize these kids more than that, so I'll just leave my thoughts about the lesser prospect on the roster at that.

    9. Now I'll focus on some of the few positives with this team.

    There's almost nothing good to say about what we saw at this tournament. Among our good players, KHF and Scally were the only two players who I thought had good tournaments, although both arguably were playing out of position. Las was good in the game he played, and Reyna had his moments.

    10.

    Players on the radar from the '02 year. I might've forgotten a player or two, but this is the group of players I'd expect the best '02 players to emerge from in the upcoming years. Individual thoughts on each player are below.

    GK: Damian Las, Aaron Cervantes, Seth Wilson, Max Trejo, Chris Edwards, JT Harms
    RB: Joe Scally, Cristian Escribano
    CB: Jansen Miller, Nico Carrera, Joshua Ramsey, Tayvon Gray, Axel Alejandre
    LB: Kobe Hernandez-Foster, George Bello
    DM: Diego Letayf, Josh Atencio, Peter Stroud
    CM: Cesar Garcia, Mario Penagos
    AM/Wing: David Rodriguez, Cameron Dunbar, Gio Reyna, Gianluca Busio, Beni Redzic
    CF: Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez, Kaya Ignacio, Sagir Arce

    GK:

    Las: Arguably the best player in the whole age group. He got shafted by Wicky, but he wouldn't be the first to have that happen to him. World class reflexes, very calm in traffic, above-average with his feet. Size could be a minor issue, but he's about 6'0/6'1, and can still grow, so it's not a huge problem. I think he'll eventually emerge as the starting keeper for the NT.

    Cervantes: I don't know about his potential, but he's a pretty well-rounded keeper. Good athleticism, can play out of the back, doesn't make many aerial errors. He lacks size, and doesn't standout in any area. I think in a worse GK age group (like '01 or '03), he'd be a lot closer to the top of the age group.

    Wilson: He's one of the big snubs from the U-17 WC team. Big, great in the air, very few errors, and very good reflexes for a big keeper. He's not the best playing out the back, so thats probably the one area he needs to develop significantly. I think in most age groups, he's the best GK. In this age group, I'd put him second to Las.

    Trejo: Incredible reflexes. Like Las, he has world class level reflexes. He also has good size. The rest of his game is nothing great, but his reflexes can definitely carry him. I'm not sure that he's yet eligible to play for the USA. Otherwise, like Wilson, he'd be a big snub.

    Edwards: I think this guy is probably the best overall athlete of all the goalkeepers. Tall and very well built. He's a football recruit, so you can see why he has the build that he does. However, his agility and reflexes are excellent. He also has a very good command of his area. Not great with his feet. Interesting project type of keeper. Clearly has the pure athleticism to be a high level keeper, but not the most proven at high levels and he might not even continue with soccer much longer.

    Harms: Similar type of player to Cervantes, but a tick lower in most areas. He doesn't stand out much. Not the top level athlete, doesn't have great size, not excellent playing out of the back, but doesn't make many errors and usually is very reliable. He'll probably have some type of pro career. In this age group, he's probably the 6th best keeper. In most other age groups, he's probably battling for 2nd or 3rd.

    RB:

    Scally: I'll list him as RB for now, but I'm not convinced he's a RB. He might be a CB or some type of hybrid. Excellent defensively and a great athlete. Good speed, very powerful, very good in the air. Also has good size. Very hard to beat 1v1 to a spot. He can struggle a little with smaller and quicker players because he's more of a N-S athlete than an E-W athlete. Very good positionally, and reads the game well. Going forward, his touch and passing isn't great. He has more skill on the ball than you'd think, crosses the ball well and covers a lot of ground, but he's more of an average going forward than good. Definitely one of the better prospects in this age group. Arguably the best field player IMO.

    Escribano: He lost a lot of last season due to injuries, so you can cut him a break, but his game hasn't improved as much as I'd like to see. Good going forward with dribbling, passing and he's a pretty good athlete, but his defensive awareness and positioning is definitely problematic. I've seen worse players defensively. He could definitely become an average defensive player, but I don't think his play going forward is at such a high level that he adequately makes up for the below-average defense.

    CB:

    Miller: Another good player who got snubbed from the U-17's. He got snubbed completely, and wasn't called up to any camps all cycle. He's a very good player defensively. Very good size, excellent positioning, reads the game well and pretty good 1v1. He has better athleticism than you'd think. He's similar to a player like Miazga. I don't think his passing is all that good, but it's slim pickings in this age group, so that would be nitpicking. He probably should've made the U-17 WC team, and has good potential to develop into a good pro CB.

    Carrera: He has good some tools (size, passing), but his game needs a lot of work. He's slow, doesn't read the game well in possession or out of possession, and isn't very good positionally. Definitely a project type of player, but he has enough talent that he could turn into a good CB at the pro level.

    Ramsey: I've been very impressed what I've seen from this guy. No huge standout areas of his game, but very good reader of the game defensively, moves well, good enough size, good positionally. Like Miller, he suffers from not playing for an MLS academy. I think he would've made the U-17 WC roster if he was playing in an MLS academy last season.

    Gray: Mobile, good positionally, reads the game well, and while he's more of an average passer, his passing plays up because he can carry the ball out of pressure and into better passing situations. His size is average, so we'll see how he develops physically, but in a very weak CB age group, he's one of the better CB's.

    Alejandre: I don't know about his pro potential, but I've always appreciated his performances. Moves well, can pass the ball, reads the game well and good positionally. His problem is that he's not tall enough to play CB at the pro level, so he's going to need to switch positions. I think he could be an adequate DM or LB. He also needs to sort out his club situation. Not the most heralded player, but I wouldn't rule out that he could play a role with the U-20's next cycle or could emerge eventually as a pro, although I'm not sure he has big potential.

    LB:

    Hernandez-Foster: He's not a CB, and I'm glad that experiment for him is likely now over. He's improved a lot in the last year or so. He was more of a fringe level player 1.5-2 years ago, and is now one of the best players in the '02 age group. Great going forward because he's an excellent passer, rather skilled, and delivers excellent crosses. He's an adequate athlete and adequate defensively. I don't know if he'll add much value in these areas, but I think he's probably not going to lose value for the team in these areas either. His offensive side of the game is good enough to make him a very good prospect because he's excellent going forward.

    Bello: His stock has dropped a lot for most, although I've always rated him lower to begin with. The defensive problems have always been there. He's below-average defensively right now, and probably won't ever be better than average. He's not good positionally and loses the ball in bad areas too often. Going forward, he's definitely good in combination play, has good skill on the ball, and is a pretty good crosser, but I find that his offensive play has suffered due to his declining athleticism. He's struggled with injuries that I think have made him more of an above-average athlete now as opposed to a very good one. We'll see how he continues to recover physically. Bad club situation, as well. He's still a top 10 prospect in this age group, so its not all doom and gloom.

    Defensive Midfield:

    Letayf: I'd like to think he would've been on this team, if he was eligible. Would he? It's hard to know. He wasn't eligible (and he's not that close to it), so its a guessing game. I'll list him in the pool for now, but its entirely possible he'll be cap-tied by Mexico soon enough. He was injured twice when he was called into camps with Mexico, and therefore didn't get much of a chance to make their team. I think he's one of the better players in this age group though. Very impressive #6 prospect. Good on the ball, good tackler, excellent reader of the game, and he's a smooth operator. Not the most adventurous going forward, but thats not his role. He also has adequate size and athleticism for the position.

    Atencio: I think it's a real shame that he wasn't given more of a chance because I think he would've made a big difference with the U-17 team. I still see no reason why I shouldn't regard him as a top 10 player in this age group. Big holding midfielder, very good on the ball, very good passer, good in challenges. He's a little slow, but so are many big holding midfielders that have turned into very good players. I think he is one of the higher upside players in this age group.

    Stroud: Injuries ruined his chances to force his way onto the U-17 WC team, but he probably also should've played a bigger role all cycle than he did. He's not a high upside player, more of a defensive destroyer who is very good in the defensive side of the game, and adequate in possession. He should have a good pro career because his game doesn't have many holes, and teams are always looking for a destroyer #6, even if it's just as a role player.

    Central Midfielder:

    Cesar Garcia: Project type of player. Has a lot of tools, but very inconsistent. He shows a pretty complete game, but disappears for large stretches of games, and I always find that he's more talented than his performance level. We'll see how his game develops. He's in a good academy to develop at FC Dallas. He has upside, but needs to become more consistent.

    Mario Penagos: I think Penagos was another of the bigger snubs from this team. It doesn't help that he's not an MLS academy player. His game reminds me a lot of Djordje Mihailovic. Very silky #8 with good passing, skill on the ball, soccer IQ, but he also has decent size, athleticism and isn't bad defensively. Top 10 level player in this age group IMO.

    AM/Wing:

    Rodriguez: I'm actually surprised he didn't make the U-17 WC team because he got into a good number of camps. This age group definitely lacks #10 types. Rodriguez might be the best #10 in the age group. A lot of people have long been a fan of him. I didn't see it the first 5-10 times I saw him play, but I've come around on his game recently. I think he's a much better passer than I gave him credit for being, I like his soccer IQ, and he moves better than I initially thought. He's not exceptionally creative or a dominant #10, but he has a good amount of ability, and plays for a good academy to break through at FC Dallas.

    Dunbar: This guy has long been very underrated. He continuously looks very dangerous off the wing and always creates attacking chances. He even did so in the few YNT games he played, but the coaches weren't impressed evidently. I don't understand it. He has very good quickness, excellent dribbling skills and good creativity. He can be a little bit of a tunnel-vision player and his end product isn't great, but he drives at the defense and makes play. I don't know how that isn't preferred to some of the players we've been using at wing.

    Reyna: One of the better players in this age group. Very good athlete with excellent power and good speed. A lot of positional versatility, capable of playing 4 positions. He has above-average passing vision, dribbling ability and creativity. He has the makings of a dominant level attacker, but I've seen too many games to believe he will be that level of player. He just doesn't take over games in the way his talent dictates he could. I think part of it is his soccer IQ. I think its below-average. He makes bad decisions too often. I think he'll be very good and probably a NT player, but I'm not convinced he's the next Pulisic. I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually became that good because he has great potential, but even at youth level he doesn't put it all together, like should.

    Busio: Very hard player to evaluate. His play is all over the place, depending on the environment, and the tools are very inconsistent. I think where my opinion is at is that I think he's very good in the final third. He's a great finisher with excellent set piece ability, he's also an effective passer in the final third. He has good athletic potential, but I find that his work-rate limits how his athleticism plays. Disappears from games. He has dribbling skill, but doesn't seem to use it much. I think he'll have a decent enough pro career. He's already a back-up level MLS'er. I'm not sure I see big potential though, unless he starts using some of his tools in games with more than the occasional flash of ability.

    Redzic: He's probably the best dribbler in the age group. Tremendous acceleration, great ball control, combines very well. Lacks end product, no left foot. He has potential, if he can improve his end product, but I can understand why some are big fans and others are definitely not fans, at all. I would say that my opinion is somewhere in the middle.

    Center Forward:

    Ocampo-Chavez: He's another player who got absolutely shafted by Wicky. He should've been starting. He's a better current player than Pepi. I also don't like how he's been used by club and country on the wing at times. He's fast enough to dribble into the box and create some attacking chances, but those are secondary tools. He's best at scoring goals inside the best. Excellent goal-scoring instincts, can score in every way. He's a good passer and obviously can dribble. He's not the tallest player, but I think he has adequate size, he moves well and he works hard. I think he's a top 5 or so player in the age group.

    Arce: I've always been a fan, and I'm glad to see that he's now having success in LigaMX. He should've been on the U-17 WC team, but his call ups dried up about a year ago, so it wasn't surprising. Left-footed player with excellent finishing, better athlete than he looks, can dribble a little. Great instincts in the box, can combine. Not going to be the most creative player, the best athlete or great at holding the ball up, but I think he's a quality player. Probably best situated as a secondary striker.

    Ignacio: I don't know what to think about his game. He looked like a breakout player last season. I thought he would definitely emerge, but he's off to a very slow start to this season. He's not even producing in the DA, which is concerning. He has good size, can hold the ball up well, excellent goal-scoring instincts, good technically, not a bad athlete. Reminds me of Sebastian Soto. Could emerge, but I'm not sure about it.
     
  12. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team looked horribly unprepared and timid. It looked to me like they were more concerned with playing a system than playing a soccer match. The only thing I’m taking away from this is Wicky was hired far too late in the process. It’s also fair to question his player selection and tactics since the team had no chemistry or bite. But I still haven’t made any definitive conclusions on him as a coach.

    As far as the players go, I was at the DA playoffs a few days in the summer and of the players I saw, KHF was the best. It wasn’t just my opinion, either. After every game there were fans and parents talking about how good he is. He’s 17 and not immune to mistakes, but he is definitely still the top prospect from this group IMO.

    I don’t agree that these players are entitled or coddled, and I think it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest as much. They play games on side fields in front of 10-20 parents and friends. They travel all over the place and are constantly being evaluated and scrutinized. They train daily and give up high school life for soccer. The one thing I’ll concede is there is probably too much sportsmanship and not enough grit and toughness. You basically never see players getting in each other’s faces, and that seems to be a massive problem.
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't think anyone is projecting his game to CB. He has very good tools for LB. Don't blame him for being used out of position.
     
    Lookingforleftbacks repped this.
  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    You're on point. I'm not a big insider. I hear the occasional thing, but I've heard about some of the politics that went into the selections for this age group, and its pathetic that this is happening instead of showcasing the best players.
     
  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Kind of like “the group” (as Berhalter likes to call it) with the full national team... Lovitz, Trapp, Roldan, Zardes, etc. are “in” and it’s not clear any dip in performance would change that.
     
    Namdynamo and Winoman repped this.
  16. Is there a big correlation between the performances of a national team and the Uxx youth teams of them a couple of years earlier?
    With the Dutch teams there isnot. Out star studded teams were less than meh as youth teams and of the title winning teams hardly anyone made it into the big Orange team.
     
    Winoman and gogorath repped this.
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    No, not really. If you don't qualify for something in CONCACAF, it's a really good sign your overall talent at that level is pretty terrible, but performance at the youth World Cup isn't really correlated.

    We usually only get 2-3 players even capped out of a U17 roster, but that won't stop the endless handwringing.
     
    Lookingforleftbacks repped this.
  18. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    I don’t see the speed or quickness you see. At all.
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're watching him when he's playing cb in tighter space, being told to keep possession at all costs, and play targeted long balls. Not conducive to displaying much athleticism.

    Here's a video of him playing fb, providing width, and beating opponents off the dribble; which he should have been allowed to do in this tourney.

     
    Lookingforleftbacks repped this.
  20. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    I certainly believe that he’s a better LB. But I still don’t see overwhelming tools. Great left, but he’s not a tremendous athlete or even slightly above-average one.

    Think about it, he doesn’t have elite quickness and he’s smaller than Bello. There just isn’t enough potential here. Is he even a Dest-level athlete?
     
  21. didi11

    didi11 Member

    Dec 13, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I have never seen KHF play a whole game, I just saw some highlights, so please take a huge grain of salt of what I say here, I may be completely and totally wrong. He looks sooooo average to me! Average speed, quickness, technique, and average everything. I didn't watch U15-17 YNT for the last two three years, so you may call me ignorant, dumb or too negative But After watching some highlights, I was amazed at how much ink spent on these players with so little talent, creativity and technique
     
  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    He defends better than Bello, and better than Dest. Dest isn't a speedster. I don't think Dest is any better of an athlete than KHF. KHF is an elite passer, elite crosser and he has good skill.

    He doesn't need to be a great athlete or great defensively. He has significant ability to impact games offensively. He's able to run the game from LB at youth level. There are very few players who can do that.
     
    zlebmada repped this.
  23. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Over the three games, Kobe was easily the best defender even playing out of position.

    Imagining a defense in future with Kobe and Dest on opposite sides of the field is almost enough alone for me to keep the faith.
     
    zlebmada repped this.
  24. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    So I watched all the CONCACAF qualifying games and these 3, so that's what 8 games (and that's all), which makes me no where near qualified to give an opinion, but whatever, it's the internet. It's time to RIP some high school kids.... (sorry).

    Cervantes
    Too busy chasing windmills to bother with this tournament.
    Comp - Sancho Panza​
    Las
    I think he's pretty good actually, but what the hell was he doing on the 2nd goal vs. Senegal?
    Comp - Rimando?​
    Odunze
    Raised his stock here. Some big saves and the goals I'm not sure he could do anything about.
    Comp - An NBA small forward?​
    Anderson
    I literally got nothing
    Comp - Casper the Friendly Ghost​
    Armour
    Was not bad in his one appearance. Nothing to get excited about though.
    Comp - Daniel Lovitz, so he's a lock.​
    Bello
    Thought he was pretty good in these games. A lot of hype, then not, then ?, but for me, I've seen him twice, so expert opinion is, he's pretty good. I wish he was a little more decisive in these matches.
    Comp - Gloster seems too obvious I guess.​
    Carrera
    I actually really liked what I saw here. Suuuuuuper raw though. Looks like a baby giraffe taking first steps. We'll see.
    Comp - Miazga​
    Gray
    Has some 1v1 defending ability, but overall the package is underwhelming.
    Comp - A pauper's McKenzie.​
    Hernandez
    So, I've never seen him play LB, and everyone says that's where he should be, and I guess I agree, because he didn't impress here. He was pretty good back in Florida against the almighty CONCACAF.
    Comp - I'll just say Bello as a LB. I dunno.​
    Scally
    He's a battler, but makes bad decisions as to when to battle. Can put in a decent cross, but doesn't seem like a good RB otherwise. Maybe he winds up somewhere else on the pitch?
    Comp - Remember when Brad Evans played RB? Like that.​
    Dietz
    I'm guessing he's German?
    Comp - I don't even have jokes​
    Dobbelare
    I mean, I kinda liked he was aggressive. No product though.
    Comp - A combination of 10% Morris and 10% Llanez, 80% me. So nope.​
    Kayo
    Kind of hilarious performance yesterday. Horrible touches, gets away with them. Streaking by people. Fail. And that's about what I expected based on what I saw earlier.
    Comp - The bad Ricardo Clark​
    Leyva
    There's a bit there. Needs to be given more freedom I think to succeed.
    Comp - The guy he will replace in 2-3 years. Roldan.​
    Saldana
    Needs to get a lot stronger defensively if he's going to stick as a boring 6. Not bringing much else to the table.
    Comp - Recency bias probably, but he's like Cerrilo and Servania, just with quite a bit less upside.​
    Busio
    Where the hell you gonna play this guy? He's a sieve defensively, so that rules out most of the field. He doesn't seem to want to take guys on or cross so the wings are out. Too short to be a #9. Sooooo.... But he has a bit of a bunch of stuff that works, kind of. Needs to get a lot better at one something so he can stamp out a position. If not, he's a bench guy.
    Comp- Julian Green?​
    Jasson
    I'm sorry, but what the hell.
    Comp - A high school soccer player​
    Ocampo-Chavez
    Why he didn't play more? And then why on the wing? He's a baller up top and can score. Just kind of lost out wide yesterday.
    Comp - I'm getting lazy now. Soto​
    Pepi
    Hasn't played well in any game I've seen. Going to give some benefit based on Texas play and other opinions. Just kind of ran around here.
    Comp - Cant really say. Maybe Wood?​
    Reyna
    Stop throwing your arms up every god damn time you don't get the ball (and you weren't open!) or you get called for a foul. Jesus. I haven't seen him at Dortmund, but got to believe he's a different player there. Talent is there, but it's frustrating to watch this kid.
    Comp - Trouble thinking of one. Pulisic crossed with Dempsey is the upside, but that's very optimistic. I guess with his attitude and skillset Wynalda makes some sense.​
    Yow
    A guy who can pop in a few and help out, but ultimately isn't a NT factor.
    Comp - Ralston line.





     
    TimB4Last, Dirt McGirt and butters59 repped this.
  25. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    I predict that he will look better with better players (Europe). They'll be more adept at getting in correct positions for his passes. Everyone wanted to see him at LB, his natural position, but I guess Wicky had so little faith in the CB corps.
     
    zlebmada repped this.

Share This Page