Post-Match USMNT vs. Uruguay 9/10

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by largegarlic, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with all of this. Just it's hard to measure heart. I think Trapp gives his all I just don't think he is at the level we need.

    Adams is the player I see as the best 6.
     
  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yeah, I got that with Kellyn Acosta a lot.

    "best prospects that the US has ever produced" comes off as trolling

    why the hype? I can give you hard evidence for his shortcomings. He has no position. They played him at fullback and he got torched by Sane in CL. He hasn't had a good performance for us. He got burned by Dos Santos in a GC final because he lacked elite instincts that Donovan had at age 17. That's not the "best prospect the US has produced". The media is complaining about the USMNT not creating turnovers in midfield which can be turned into goals. How does that make McKennie the best prospect the USA ever produced? I'd say the opposite. Berhalter says McKennie can 'arrive in the box late to score goals'. He can? Must be my lyin' eyes cuz I haven't seen it. Talk, talk, talk. Where's the performance apart from your feverish imagination?

    I get there's something called marketing. That's fine. Just don't ask me to buy in. There's plenty suckers out there who'll buy your snake oil. You don't need me.

    Just because somebody makes a living in the BL doesn't make them automatic on the USMNT. Morales was in the BL various times and wasn't called up. Same goes for Aron Johannsson. I'm probably forgetting somebody else as well.

    The fact is I suggested that we put our real stars - Pulisic, Adams, plus our goal scorers like Jozy, probably Sargent, Morris - on a team where they would have the right support and I don't think it's a good idea to get stuck on one non performing midfielder just because he is MLSSUM poster boy. I'd much rather see Pomykal, Servania and guys like that get a chance in McKennie's position. We might see a whole new attitude.

    We really need to find out who is going to juice this team so we don't end up like Arena in the swamps of Couva saying "gee, we were planning on bringing different players to the actual World Cup".
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    he would be marginal to me right now. he has the right attitude but he was wasteful with the ball and one of those beaten on the 3rd goal. you are trying to upgrade the team and change the results, not perpetuate them. part of that is a function of, is he an upgrade, would he make a 23.

    i mean.....we know how the game went, right??????

    to me, you earn your way back again by playing well. a mixed bag where you are victimized for a goal should mean i audition the next guy. sorry. if i audition everyone and you still stick out in the memory, fine, come back again, this is as good as I can do. that's my theory on the old guard being recycled, and the ones who have been trialed and didn't stand out or had issues. we shouldn't be settling or reaching for old, faltering security blankets until we've exhausted the pool.

    people need to just think that if i put out there 4 top notch types and then the other 7 are lackidaisically chosen making excuses about their foibles, they are likely to manifest again and again. dest got beat again one on one the second game. robinson hasn't proven he can defend. tigers don't change their stripes. if you kid yourself the next team exploits it too.

    i would agree that morales is better than trapp but on a fair planet that would be a low bar. based on how morales looked it should be can i do better than both. after all, that's probably for backup 6 anyway. i'd rather have adams there and then the next relatively spot free DM I can find.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Trapp has had one coach at the club level, in essence.

    Egg and Will both started with Crew in 2013 and Crew has been Trapp's only pro club.
     
  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yep. Probably too risky to be honest.

    The Galaxy are not a cohesive team in the Zlatan era. He's amazing, but they basically just toss the ball at him. It doesn't really make for a place for anyone to shine.

    That said, Lleget isn't good enough to be a real 10. He's a nice, versatile player who can do some things. I think the instant you ask him to be a focal point, you've taken him too far.

    Which is pretty much how you sum up almost every US player ever.
     
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Let's see Boyd with a different fullback before we throw him in the discard bin.

    Goal scorers don't grow on trees so I'd cultivate him as far as possible.

    I say that as somebody who hasn't had him in my lineups.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Lletget should come on as a sub for now. He needs to build back up after a tough injury.
     
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    And this is where you and I disagree.

    Morales played against the best opponent we will play in the Berhalter era for ... well, until we make the World Cup. He had about three days of camp. He got to play with a reasonable team, but not a full A team.

    He wasn't impressive to me. As you say, I'd evaluate him as a step up on Trapp but in the general bucket of "not likely to materially improve the team" based on that performance.

    But it's one performance. With almost no prep. And it's not like there's a ton of competition out there for his role, whether it is as the 8 or 6.

    I know you think that there's no way to judge whether certain players can do roles from the Club, but yes, certain people can be exlcuded.

    I'd bring him in in October and give him time at least versus Cuba but potentially both, depending on the rest of the team. Give him a bit more run to get a larger sample.
     
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  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    AJ has a winning goal in qualifying against Panama, was on a world cup roster once, and to me is a poor man's Sargent. Technical and can put a shot where he means to. He doesn't suck, he had injury issues. He got stuck as a squad player in B.1 (like Wood, who also doesn't suddenly absolutely suck). He has now transferred out and has an assist in 247' of game time for Hammarby.

    Used to be you produced in a game that big we assumed you had something, but now it's how many minutes and how many goals even if it means starting someone whose virtue is the Crew run him out there every night no matter how their season goes.

    The way we handle things is absurd. Zardes is literally the 5th or 6th best option. "But playing time." "But form." "But it's risky to play new guys." And that's how you get a befuddling Berhalter lineup with guys you'd think were C teamers. You weed out the old guard who have been on hiatus who aren't your favorites. You weed out new options for the circular argument we don't know what to expect. Yes, if Sargent gathers dust or is thrown out with the B/C team, we don't know, do we?
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm sorry. Are you calling Weston McKennie an "MLSSUM poster boy"?

    The irony, of course, is that people like to criticize Arena for not bringing in a just-barely-started-in-the-BL Weston McKennie as someone who should have been brought in earlier.
     
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I am a huge believer in big games telling me what I have in a player. To me we put him out there for the precise test for which such players are being prepared, and they took some advantage. If I keep the ones they abuse, what do you think happens next time????

    Mind you, I think for separating basic wheat from chaff, we should schedule easier. GC type schedule. I want to see who can look good against anyone. That's a first cut type game. But to winnow down to a 23, I want to see how they handle Mexico. I liked the attitude but overall thought he failed the test. We couldn't possess and he was a reason why. We gave up 3 goals and he got juked on one of them.

    If you want to finish midpack in the Hex this is how to do it.

    Even if I liked your argument, at least one reason I hated the last 2/3 of Sarachan's schedule and then this is with a team that needs evaluation and roster churn you learn too much bad stuff about players without really distinguishing who could handle other parts of the schedule.
     
  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    He has been somewhat eclipsed by Pulisic for the time being.
     
  13. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    We used to treat Gold Cup and Copa America like, send heavily experimental teams

    Heck, we used to give Reyna whole months off from having to play games

    The idea being, I know what I have, I want it rested and ready to go when it counts, I want to know who else we might have

    We then gathered the troops come qualifying.

    At some point after it sunk in we were a world cup regular, we became obsessed with winning secondary stuff, the ego stroke of it all. We need to win. We have to qualify for confed cup (back then).

    Does this current version, where we barely experiment and then go right back to trying to win with conservative selections, seem to be choosing good teams that actually win anything? Or are we in the most basic of fashions assuming a conclusion until too deep into the process to change a thing. even as the region starts to competitively even up where you need all your edges.

    and then this attitude about what level of play earns a return visit. i'm not even sure there is a level of bad if the coach likes you. i'm not even sure there is a level of good if the coach doesn't want to like you. used to be meh or below was the end of it because that's what the pool is for. i try someone else next time.

    i mean, know why nguyen never broke in??? because over a decade when he got his one shot nothing happened. 9 caps, no goals. nowadays, "but club form."
     
  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Which one is steak and which one is the turd?

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/co...erhalter-system.2102552/page-94#post-38152672

    Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    He should not have dumped your sister by text.
     
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  16. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    One of the benefits of asserting facts in an argument on BS is that the argument turns to your ma or your sister or worse. Is that all you've got?
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You’ve had a bee in your bonnet about Weston for years. Last year, you kept saying he’s a defender and wouldn’t get any time at MF and now that he’s locked in at S04 as a 6/8 and doing quite well, you pivot to some new shit.

    TheDukeofSoccer has a great post discussing McKennie’s USMNT performances.

    I’ll add three points:

    1. Let’s judge McKennie when he actually has a partner that isn’t Trapp//Bradley. He can and will play better
    2. Who is it that you think is a better MF than Weston now? He doesn’t have to outrun the bear.... IIRC, you think that Trapp, Roldan and Delgado were all above him. I have tears in my eyes laughing right now so thanks for that.
    3. Who do you think Pulisic would choose if he could pick his starting midfielders?

    Your animosity is crazy - the only thing that I think could justify is something personal and dumping your sister seems pretty anodyne to me. Could be something else personal.
     
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  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Who is a better c-mid than McKennie? I'd go with Nagbe :( and Adams. But those three would make for a great, balanced central midfield..
     
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  19. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This is a stupid article. So Benny who was MLS MVP contender and by far the best American CM shouldn't had been considered, but Hollingshead who might be in top 30 in MLS or not is a must? And I do think that he should have been called but he isn't Feilhaber level of a player.
     
  20. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ive kind of settled on the idea that boyd is a luxury player for us, and our current team cant afford that.

    if we had an otherwise "set" team he could make sense- i think hes a player that just wants to be a purely attacking winger. i still havent seen enough service from him, but he is a very good attacking (probably best used as a sub even best case) option that doesnt bring a lot elsewhere.

    i think the things we are asking of him (tracking back, playing really isolated as cannons been pinned back) have made him look a lot worse than he is- but thats completely valid. i mean, it sucks for him, but if our (lower case "s") system calls for wings who fall back defensively, and (upper case "s") spend more time starting an "attack" than one ever lasts hes a pretty bad selection/fit.

    the biggest difference in his first two matches and these last two were a) we actually had the ball and he was able to combine/attack with lima, mckennie, pulisic and zardes and b) we are stuck in the back/aimlessly knocking the ball around and basically hes playing arriolas role.

    badly, cause hes not that. i think he has quality, and can help us in the right conditions- but not us currently.
     
  21. UncagedGorilla

    Barcelona
    Sep 22, 2009
    East Bay, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I don't think the point was that Feilhaber and Hollingshead are the same. It's that the same media who lambasted JK for the failure to include Benny (and they were right to do so) is giving Gregg a free pass on skipping over multiple more talented LB's to play Lovitz. And that's not the only position you could say this about. I don't think it was a well-written article but I do think it's encouraging that we might actually be seeing some critical journalism from a major company.
     
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  22. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the obvious reasons, is that it is much more expensive to be an USSF registered league and/or registered player. You can play in a "pirate" league much more cheaply.
     
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  23. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Very simple

    What has Boyd done since the one game against Guyana

    If you stick him out there against a good team tomorrow what are you expecting him to contribute, and i don’t mean in theory, i mean backed by he does it already at that level

    What he has done should put him above players like Baird but that doesn’t say much

    I think it should be Morris on production and then be shopping for a RW that can hit a better cross and produces against a better level of team, with Boyd hip pocketed as a frustrating player with some productivity against a weaker team (bearing in mind they won’t be in the Hex in the new format which makes that competency not very useful this cycle)
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Dear god people

    Benny actually made the team and played in couva as a sub

    Benny didn’t change jack squat
     
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  25. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I realize 433 is the trend but there is a certain system level insanity to “the wing forward is to blame for not tracking back to the defender”....i think that is “the concept,” I am curious how many specialist forwards want to do it, or do it well. It’s no wonder coaches who take it too seriously might stick a DM like Roldan out there.

    The new thing is switch to a 442 on defense but people don’t seem to acknowledge that this puts the wing forwards further back on the counter, and amidst a bunch of defenders. Half the fun to a 433 is the ability to get it wide early and long.

    I think it’s a tad goofy when I hear people critiquing forwards as a leading item on tracking back. It’s a scheme tic but it doesn’t ring true as a smart way to play. Cuts against competency and leaves my forwards way back when we get the ball.

    Honduras’ forwards who play for Houston are indifferent to tracking back.
     
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