BL Matchday 3: Union Berlin vs BVB

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by astrophyz, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. bvbSlash

    bvbSlash Member+

    Jan 7, 2014
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We don't miss Delaney but Witsel for sure. I'm seeing zero leadership from Reus and Hummels.

    This is basically our best 11 that's on the pitch.
     
  2. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    3:1 damn that's bad. We look like amateurs.
     
  3. bvbSlash

    bvbSlash Member+

    Jan 7, 2014
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It will be a two headed title race this season between Bayern and RBL.

    We need a better coach. Lucien Favre was a bad choice three years ago and still is.
     
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  4. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade Member

    Jun 4, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Anyone who thinks Akanji is world-class or Witsel is expendable needs to refer back to this game. None of our other midfielders have Witsels brains to nip counter attacks in the bud. He even fills in at centerback when Akanji switches off.
     
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  5. Arlo

    Arlo Member

    Nov 9, 2005
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    new season, same problems....
     
  6. HockeytownHeel

    HockeytownHeel Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 23, 2018
    Such an abysmal match..pathetic
     
  7. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Akanji had a shocker and our midfield is not the problem with counter attacks. Teams bypass our midfield by hitting it long.

    We have been conceding goals consistently, but Favre needs to change the mentality of the team.

    The commentators were saying it, but it's true. Bayern come out and go to destroy teams from the start. With Favre, there is no pressing and he likes to be calm and patient, letting other teams grow in confidence.

    A few of the attacking players were not much fit, but why was Hakimi playing wide on the left this game. He had so much ball to play first time crosses, but he just kept hitting the first man. With Brandt playing you need Schulz. LP is a legend, but he too had a terrible game.

    The game was lost by our CBs. Union Berlin and Cologne do the same thing. They hit it long and our CBs can't cope. A really awful start to the season.

    Favre needs to have a long hard think about things. He does not have the mentality of a top coach. We should be going to dominate and impose our game. He is lucky to be working with one of the best squads in the world.
     
  8. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    The first half was at least tolerable but that was painful to watch in the second half.
    The first half offered some variations which show that Favre at least tries new things to play against these kind of teams. Among them Weigl falling back to a CB position to allow Hummels to go a bit more forward or Brandt coming back to help in the build up and both him and Reus being outlets in the middle.
    We all know about our problems with set pieces but what was shocking is that we almost collapsed after the second goal. The amount of mistakes, misplaced short passes and the nervous response makes me worry about a mental problem when we fall behind. You can still be solid in defense while chasing a goal. There was all the time when we were down only one goal to set up our game properly. In contrast, we took more time to make decisions close to the 90 minutes mark.

    I had no real problems with Weigl or Dahoud. Hakimi was a non-factor for most of the game. I liked LP more for our offense but it also seemed he was bizarrely absent for some of the goals. That shouldn't happen with his experience.
     
    eaglespark repped this.
  9. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade Member

    Jun 4, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Dahoud and anyone (LP tried too) who tries potshots from outside the box more than once a game should be fined for wastefulness. Players who do that value their personal highlight reel over the team effort. If he wants to be Ruben Neves, he can go join a mid tier English club.
     
  10. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    You are the perfect example of how a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Neves is an absolutely class player and scoring wonder goals is not what makes him special. He is at Wolves, because of the complicated relationship with the super agent Mendes and Wolves. When he does leave for a huge sum of money he will probably be going to Barca or Madrid.

    Some managers are against shooting from outside the box, but most encourage it. Managers like Allaydyce frown upon it, but many managers like Mourinho and Ferguson encourage it. Even Guardiola does not mind it. If the opportunity is there it is right to go for it.

    Dahoud was right to shoot both times on his right foot. The first shot was a good one, but the second was poor. The space opened up and he should have done much better. The criticism is not hitting the target.

    LP was just frustrated and lost his head. Shooting from his left foot from that angle was foolish. Neither player were shooting, because they wanted the glory.

    AND trust me, I would love for us to have some mid tier English club players like Neves, Tielemans, Vardy, Zaha etc

    However, you know Favre does not like shots from outside the box, if say Heynckes was our manager, you would be quoting him about how it's great to shoot when you have a sight at goal.
     
  11. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade Member

    Jun 4, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Any player who habitually takes long shots and misses the target when there are 3 or 4 teammates in the box is not too bright. Especially when their team is trailing. They are no Pirlo, time to wake up and pass it into the 18.

    Didn't take long for you to resort to personal insults huh? Adios.
     
  12. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    For me this says we can forget winning the Bundesliga this year... If you can't win against the newly promoted team you don't have what it takes to be a season winner. All team knows they can beat us and we know it too, it affects the confidence. It comes from the top too. They never clearly said we were aiming for the title, just the champions league is enough. So that is all we will achieve.
     
  13. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I can imagine Bayern, Schalke and Leipzig having beers while laughing at us and how pathetic we look now.
     
  14. Jiri Havran

    Jiri Havran Member

    Apr 8, 2016
    Oslo
    Club:
    Shanxi Baorong
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    Our biggest problem is against physical (and nasty playing) teams like Köln and Union Berlin. How they managed today to get away without being booked one single time is beyond my understanding.

    And please, play DAZ for Akanji, and Morey (when he's fit again) for Pisczek
     
  15. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    I don't think physicality is the problem. The ref should have given more yellows, but we don't get bypassed in the midfield. We sometimes struggle to pass through a press, but that's not why we concede. Teams just hit the ball long against us and Akanji had a shocker. He is one of our more physical players. We do lack intensity though. From the start we need to go and kill teams.

    LP turned it around last year, but he has poor performance after poor performance. He needs a spell on the bench as does Akanji.

    The problem is Favre is reminding me of Moyes. A small club manager, who had done well getting mid tier clubs into CL places, but when he had a top quality squad he was lost.

    This Dortmund squad is a top quality squad, it's as good as any top team and the first 11 can match any in the world.
     
  16. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I thought the management/officials actually said that they are aiming for the title, the first ime I can remember them saying that at the start of the season. And even if they hadn't said it, the players shouldn't use the management's public opinion as an excuse for a lack of ambition on their part (which I doubt exists). It is their careers and limited time to win trophies. Nothing stops them from overachieving if the goals were set too low.
     
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  17. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Yes the management have said several times with the investment made, they are not just trying to get top 4, they are going for the league as they should. Reus came out with similar comments.

    I have just seen Favre and if the translation is right, then his comments are infuriating. No top team goes out with this mentality.

    "I think we thought it would be like the second half in Cologne. That was not the case," said Dortmund head coach Favre, referencing last Friday's match in which his side trailed 1-0 at the interval but triumphed courtesy of three goals in the final 20 minutes.

    "We have to keep our patience and not play hastily with the score at 1-1; we have to defend very well. This is very important.

    "Instead, we have lost our patience [and conceded] an unnecessary goal.

    "Even then, we should have kept patient. There was still time to make it 2-2 and maybe win the game as well. Our second half was not good."

    That's not the attitude of champions. Even Mourinho went out to finish the match early, go 2-0 up and then shut up shop. Not to mention we are NOT a defensive team, we are team built for playing high paced attacking football.

    Not to mention the second goal had nothing to do with patience. Akanji had a terrible touch, which put them through and then he got beaten easily, which alone would have been disappointing.

    A patient game, keeping things tight does NOT suit the better team. The shorter the period of high intensity action, the better for the weaker team. Trust me when you watch a team like Crystal Palace against the big guns, that is our strategy. Defend deep and keep it tight for as long as possible, then if the game is level, with 30 minutes to go, we grow in confidence and go for the winner.

    Reus and Hummels are going to have to put their foot down here.
     
  18. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    They should have gotten a couple yellows for semi high studs up challenges and clear tactical fouls but while these actions weren't the reason for the goals, they stopped our attacks and got away with it repeatedly. That always hurts our game.

    I don't know whether Favre is only a small club coach but there are things he should reconsider.
    One thing and something the commentators also pointed out, our defense for corners was set up to defend the area and not the opponent. That always results in our players being close to the goal and the opponent being able to come to the incoming ball unrestricted with pace. I'm also pretty sure a man oriented defense would have made the first goal impossible or way harder. In hindsight, it should have never been possible for a ball like that to wander through our box without interference and that much time for the opponent. I can't remember whether we defended corners like that in the last season as well but Union's coach clearly must have anticipated that. Getting exposed like that is just bad and embarrassing.

    As for Favre's comments about being patient in your most recent post, I actually have no problem with patience in the sense of not losing the ball needlessly and not neglecting the defensive structure which we already saw as a problem in the first half. The players should have been more patient regardless of the score. What I'm concerned about is that Favre himself is too patient when changes are needed, though.
     
  19. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Yes, but all smaller teams do that. You need to overcome it. If we cannot handle Union Berlin doing it then how are we going to cope against the systematic feeling if Inter?
    I would have to look at our corners again, but what you are saying seems reasonable.
    This I completely disagree with. Not losing your structure or losing the ball needless has nothing to do with patience. Unless you are losing by two goals with 10 minutes left you should always keep your structure.

    However, you should go into games intense and aiming to score from the start. From what I have heard and see, Favre clearly tells the place to be patient and not go all out at the start. He wants them to pick their moments. Favre is quite happy going into half time 0-0.

    I cannot think of any other top team with this attitude. Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp. Heynckes, Ferguson etc. They were hungry wolved waiting to destroy you.

    City finish games in the first 30 minutes. We should not be afraid to lose the ball going for goals. We should be pressing to win the ball back. When you have the quality this squad has, you impose your game on other teams.

    I need to check how many matches we have finished in the first half. If we are start looking from January, I have a feeling it's going to be embarrassing.[/Quote]
     
  20. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    If that is the case, someone needs to tell the players that they won't win the title playing that way and losing to such mediocre team where no players could even make our starting 11... This is just ridiculous.

    The 'issue from the top' is that we always have a seller mentality where we sell for money we don't keep our best players. (Except Reus because he wants to stay...). Sure we are great at recruiting new talent but if we kept best players we'd be a top team year after year. Sure we can sell sometimesbut not before having replacements (Like hot head Dembele). I must admit I am very frustrated right now.

    I already fear next game against Bayer... No sure what to expect from this team anymore.
     
  21. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    Here's what I saw:
    - A few players out of tune like Reus and LP. That's OK. I think they'll warm up to the season. Hopefully not too slowly.
    - Dahoud was amazing! @eaglespark : the stars aligned for him to play and he took that chance very well. I wish we could have this distribution in every game.
    - Mistakes for goals 2 and 3 were mostly from Akanji and Hummels, but Weigl is also at fault for the second goal for not tracking the scorer. One wonders if Witsel would have done better.
    - Agree with @bvbSlash re the leadership comment. It wasn't there! Reus? Hummels? Perhaps one shouldn't strip captaincy from a young hungry player like Akanji because you bring back a player who went to a rival. Yes, that's the side effects of that kind of move.
    - Being chicken in front of goal and choosing the 100% guaranteed shot, instead of just taking a good risk when in a decent position. A few players did that. It's as if the game plan is to only score the way we did our only goal and no other way.
    - I don't like the way Brandt was played. He was a winger who goes too often to the center. That renders Hakimi isolated and useless, as he has no one to combine with. Just play him in the center. He's very good there. Move Reus to the wing.
    - Favre, when you need to score, please don't bring in Bruun Larsen!

    Perhaps, a midfield combo of Witsel and Dahoud would be our best bet. Dahoud can be inconsistent, but maybe he has extra motivation this year, like he showed today.

    Of course! We should pass the ball around the circle just like in handball. We did that all game BTW. Of course they should shoot. Dahoud had 2 good shots, from 2 good positions with plenty of space. Good decisions IMO. LP has scored long shots before, but this one was with his left, so maybe not the best decision.
     
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  22. bvbSlash

    bvbSlash Member+

    Jan 7, 2014
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We can't always walk the ball into the net. I think our chances creation has ample variety. However, I think it comes down to coaching. Potshots from outside the 18 are low probability ones and we just aren't fast enough with the ball.
     
  23. bvbSlash

    bvbSlash Member+

    Jan 7, 2014
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Aki has said repeatedly that winning the BL is our aim.

    After years of bashing him, he's done a great job this time around. We had Witsel and Hazard injured and still managed to field Brandt, Mo and Weigl. He's made sure we have Germany's best attacker and defender. On top of that we have Gotze and Gurreiro on the bench along with DAZ.

    Zorc said we need two seasons for the rebuild and he's delivered the rebuild. And now they are trying to fine tune the squad without breaking the bank. Hats off to them.

    The only problem is two years ago we all agreed that Lucien Favre was a bad choice and we were right all along. Bottled a 9 point lead, was pathetic in the knockouts and couldn't put away Bremen in the cup. Now he's lost to a promoted team that will not be playing in the BL next year. Better coaches get fired for a lot less.

    We should have got Conte. He might still get out by the quarter finals but he would have delivered us the title.

    You know who is jobless? Spaletti. His squad last season was worse than Roma and ACM and their best player's wife has poisoned the locker room. Still managed to make it to the top 4 two seasons in a row.

    We need a coach like him.
     
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  24. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade Member

    Jun 4, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    #49 Scheherazade, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    Eh the problem is not shooting from long range. That's OK if you have decent power and accuracy like Witsel, Reus, Guerreiro, Paco, Sancho. The GK could spill it for a rebound shot.

    Dahoud has been trying to score a banger ever since he did it at Gladbach versus Schalke, and he isn't even forcing the GK into action. No reason why he can't dribble into the box and shoot or pass it to Reus and co. Mo showed good distribution but Weigl and him cannot defend quick breakaways. I am not singling him out, Reus Hummels Hakimi Akanji LP didnt exactly cover themselves in glory.
     
  25. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    I expect Reus to pick up form, but even he should be in danger of getting dropped. However, LP does not deserve his place in the starting line up anymore. He has played poorly every game of the season. The assist to Hakimi does not change that.
    I actually agree with this, but after a terrible 3-1 loss it's not the time to make the point. You can tell he has even worked on his long range shooting and has a new ferocity in his shots.
    I really put all the blame on Akanji. It was such a terribl mistake and then he compounded it by being beaten so easily. Maybe Weigl could have tracked the runner, but he was running back. I actually think Delaney of all people would have tracked the runner.

    However, this is where you make a stand. No player is perfect, except Pele. Playing Weigl is not going to give you the defensive cover of Delaney, but we need to be imposing our game on others.
    This seems to have caused problems in the dressing room. However, I think Akanji is overreacting in this case. Is not like he led the defence to glory last season. We constantly gave away leads and took some severe beatings.
    This is on Favre. He likes to only shoot if there is a high chance of a goal. I don't buy this, because you get lucky with shots, get deflections or corners. We have a few players and with great long range shots.
    If he was playing Brandt on the left then he should have played Schulz. Schulz gives the team natural width and can put in first time crosses. There were so many times, Hakimi (not his fault) had to cut onto his right foot killing the move. I think it might be worth experimenting with Brandt in the centre.
    He did seem up for it and his long range passing has improved. My gut tells me we are going to seriously regret it when these two leave.
    Well said, but I am questioning Favre. The players need to have a team meeting and decide what they want to do this season. They come back and face Leverkusen and Barca. It's crunch time. The Barcelona game especially will reverberate around Europe. Win it and we send a message to the whole of Europe about our intentions. Lose and we get written off by everyone.

    Joel Matip is playing for an invincible Liverpool team. City and Liverpool play with such intensity. Guardiola the king of tika taka is NOT patient, he wants goals and he wants them as soon as possible.
     

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