Alfredo Morales

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by #1 Feilhaber and Adu, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006

    I've watched him play in two matches(one being a friendly) and I literally didnt notice him he isn't a difference maker.

    if he is the 4/5th option then he doesn't need to be called it its a waste of a spot you aren't going to carry that many 6s on the roster for a single tournament/pair of matches.

    bradley played pretty well in the gold cup is the best player I've ever seen no but is morales clearly a step up...no not by any means. I've just haven't seen morales do anything that shows me he is a step up or even a real option.

    he can be that though. if 5/6 guys are hurt he can maybe get a look.
     
  2. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    Like I always said, one good game from Bradley in between 6 stinkers , gets him CONCACAF best 11 and tons of damage control from his peeps on bigsoccer.com
     
  3. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    you forget...to get there he doesn't just have to jump ahead of bradley
     
  4. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    Why not?

    Bradley already has his spot sealed for World Cup 2042, so why cant Morales have at shot at 2022?
     
  5. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Why? Trapp should get off his ass and get to the Bundesliga already and PROVE himself. Morales is fighting everyday and improving and I LOVE IT.

    Fortuna Dusseldorf is not the bottom of the Bundesliga. People could describe them as all over the place last year, but they finished mid-table right near the likes of Werder Bremen (who was a top offensive team in Europe for stretches).
     
  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    It's just a dumb way to choose a team. Why wouldn't you go by club rank then? We just take the first 11 guys starting for the top 11 ranked clubs... It's silly.

    Did you watch Fortuna last fall? The 1st 10 games they were rank terrible - won 1, tied 2, gave up 24 goals - and Morales was part of the reason. Morales was not in the squad for 7 games in Fortuna's 18-19 Bundesliga campaign. ALL 7 were wins... He also sat on the bench for all 90 of another win. Fortuna won like, what 13 games, Morales was not in the squad/on the field for 8 of them? Fortuna gave up 65 goals. Had a GD of -16... They only lost 2 games where Morales didn't see the field - and they tied Bayern with him on the bench. Think about that. Fortuna went 8-1-2 in games Morales did not appear - and the tie was 3-3 v. Bayern... They went 5-4-14 in games where Morales appeared... I knew it was unbalanced but hadn't realized how shockingly until I just did this little math exercise.

    I personally don't think these kind statistical colonoscopies mean much on their own, but if you are going to throw around where a team ends up in the table to somehow assess which of their players deserves to play on some national team or other - rather than looking at how the player actually plays - maybe be a bit more honest in your use of stats. Again, I'm not anti-Morales, but I also don't think he's much different from what we've got, and I certainly don't think because he's holding down a spot on a poor Bundesliga team he *must* be called up - no matter where Trapp or McKinnie or Adams or Bradley or Cameron or XXX plays.
     
    ceezmad repped this.
  7. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    Geoff Cameron is 34 years old. THIRTY-FOUR.

    I agree with your criticism of league affiliation absolutes but calling Morales a slight upgrade over Trapp is absurd.

    Morales is 50x the defender and has similar or better passing range. Trapp is moderately better in tight spaces.

    Morales probably won’t make or break 2022 or even qualifying for that tournament, but if Trapp continues to be an auto-call while Morales doesn’t get a decent look it sends a pretty damning message to the pool and to the supporters. 29 isn’t ancient.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  8. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    #108 #1 Feilhaber and Adu, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    I watched a certain game where they were getting destroyed but the coach switched Morales to sweeper because he was the only Fortuna Dusseldorf player actually doing something positive against the flow. He was the best player on the team that game and they ended up losing close to 4-0.

    On top of this in the first 4 games of the 18/19 season, Fortuna went 1-1-2, with Morales providing a goal against Hoffenhiem. Then as a team, Fortuna went into a funk. They went into their worst stretch of the season and when they finally climbed out of the funk, their first 3 games from matchday 11 to matchday 13 was 1-1-1 without Morales showing the same consistency with Morales at the start of the season. Then they lost as Morales a sub in the next game. Then they picked up a 3- game winning streak going into the break.

    After the break, the coach was so impressed by Morales during January off-season that he started Morales on the first game in 2019, and Morales provided a tackle and assist for one of the individual plays of the Bundesliga season. for the second part of the season you see a consistency between rotation of the Fortuna players and their play on the field. For example the game that Fortuna gave up 5 goals, Morales was only on the bench. Morales climbed and slided with his team, a mid-table Bundesliga squad and Morales fought hard to be there and have some relevance/ psotives with his negatives.

    Now its 2019/2020, and Morales is starting again and Fortuna is 1-1 with him going 90. In both these games, he was solid, scored a nice inside the box goal and 100% belonged.

    You just have no proof that Trapp or a current Michael Bradley could make it onto this Fortuna team let alone a relegation team.

    Bundesliga is better than MLS and Morales deserves his shot.
     
  9. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    This is the reason why there are Morales threads all over. Its an Integrity issue. Morales earned his place on this team and he is being ignored for family/friends politics. Shame on those who do this and those who allow it to happen.
     
    yurch10 repped this.
  10. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    #110 #1 Feilhaber and Adu, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    Lets do "stats" for all 2019 games so far for trapp and Bradley.


    Bradley: Captain of the current 15th best points/ of 24 teams in MLS with a +/- of...……………… +4

    Trapp: Captain of the current 21st/ of 24 teams with a +/- of...………... -1.


    mid-level/ lower-level MLS players.



    laughable that they can even touch current Morales in Bundesliga.
     
    LuckofLichaj repped this.
  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #111 DHC1, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    Respectfully, it isn't a poor syllogism to say that major league players are better than minor league players - it is by and large a truism.

    is it always the case? nope and if we were talking about Pomykal or someone who is a Best XI in MLS/Championship/B2 then a good argument can be made that they can move to a higher level. But that's the level where a discussion can be made, not at the Bradley/Trapp level (average). Heck, MVP Almiron hasn't looked like a difference maker for NUFC and he was head and shoulders better than almost everyone in MLS.

    The thought that Morales is marginally better than trapp seems to indicate that trapp is close to being a B1 player and that's so far from reality.
     
  12. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    We probably should go by club rank. Let's try this! What are the top ranked teams in club football where Americans play? My order might be a bit off, but not much -

    Pulisic - auto-starter
    Adams - auto-starter
    Brooks - auto-starter
    McKennie - auto-starter
    Yedlin - auto-starter
    Morales - not in our top 40 players...

    Wait a second. Something about this list isn't like the other!!!

    So in just a random coincidence, every player holding down a spot in Germany/England's top league (we don't have anyone in Spain/Italy) is a guaranteed starter for the USNT. Except for Morales, who is the same/slightly better/or slightly worse, than Trapp and Bradley.

    Got it.
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  13. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    The idea of an X overall league level is just because someone gets games in that league is just dumb.

    It means arguing the worst MLS player is in the same pool as Villa or Ibra level and the best USL or League 1 player can't be a better choice than a lesser MLS player is unhinged. It's just too broad and dull a metric to take seriously. It's just silly.

    It means last year you would have claimed Depoitre should get a call-up over Puuki. It's just no way to analyze a player, or certainly not the best way.

    I get everyone wants to dump on the Bradley-Trapp call-ups and I'm fine with that. I've not argued that Trapp should be called up over Morales, only that I don't think Morales is as much of an upgrade as his "Bundesliga starter (tm)" resume suggests. And I for sure don't think that is the reason to call him up. Fabio J started last week and subbed in the week before - on a much better team. Are we calling him up now too?

    Or would we actually watch how he plays and what he might bring to the USMNT.

    I just would prefer integrating younger players. And I'm amused by the exploding Morales heads who will use stats to "prove" their points, until the vast weight of stats shows Fortuna were much better last season with Morales on the bench.

    But I'm fine if he comes in over Trapp. I'm no Trapp fan. Never have been.
     
    An Unpaved Road repped this.
  14. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank You for the reality check.

    I remember a year ago someone said Jozy had better numbers than Robert Lewandowski (Bayern) thus, he is at that level just not playing for a top 4 league.
     
  15. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    #115 freisland, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    Looking for your Fabian Johnson call-up post. BMG are 1-1-0. Johnson has a start, a sub appearance and a pokal sub appearance. BMG are way better than Fortuna, historically and currently.

    And I would argue there's no way he should be called up. It's a silly metric in a vacuum.

    (and it means that all those writing nepotism posts while Bradley was at Roma - or while Toronto was winning MLS - need to go scrub their history. Lol.)

    It's much more effective to simply argue Morales based on his skill set and effectiveness vs. the rest of the pool. And again, at this stage I'd rather we see a wider range of our younger players and I don't think Morales will bring much of an upgrade. The one thing he does do is take us back to a potentially more effective style - which is the dedicated DCM paired with a holding "deep lying 10" and letting our outside mids double as wings and ACMs. I don't mind reverting to that more rudimentry approach. It's not as potentially elegant but leads to less dropped games. I do think Bradley is past the sell-by date to be a combo holding-B2B and defensive stopper. That's a hard position for anyone and requires loads of fitness as well as skill.

    And, if he does get called up, I hope he proves me wrong and is a huge improvement over Bradley. That would be more awesome.
     
  16. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    If Fabian stays healthy and is starting every week, he should also be called in. The point is, players who play regularly for better teams, in better leagues, are better than players who play regularly for worse teams, in worse leagues. It's not a difficult idea. If Trapp or Bradley were better players, they would be in the better leagues (yes, i know MB got his sinecure from Toronto, but detracts very little from the overall point).

    I'm absolutely on board with going young and ignoring those guys. However, if/when Bradley gets called up again, and plugged into the midfield, I'll come back to this...and his call-up won't be because he's a better player than these other older guys.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Yeah - I think the frothiness of the Morales pack is based on this longstanding Bradley anger. Which is fine, but I don't think the best way to evaluate a player is based on league and one's hatred for another player.

    And I can't wait for the posts if Timmy Chandler earns a regular starting spot! lol.

    But if we want to progress the team we need to find a strong holding-distributor who can also defend. Morales is fine in that role, but not special. Wes or Adams could be special. I'd like to see if there are others out there who could be long-term options as well.
     
    WrmBrnr repped this.
  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I don't think Morales is a game-changer, but at least he's earned the right to get tested to see what he offers.

    The alternatives Egg has played have not been great. In particular Trapp, who's looked limited and barely international quality.

    So, since they want Adams as a RB, and Bradley is only ok at this point, why not give the Bundesliga dude a chance in his proper position?
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  19. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    It gets redundant, but here goes - "If Chandler stays healthy and is starting every week, he should also be called in."

    How about, to make it easier - "If x (insert player) is healthy and starting routinely in the Bundesliga or EPL (or La Liga/Serie A), he should be called in."

    There! Use this formula moving forward.

    And when we have 24 players starting in those leagues, we can revisit and start selecting based on the eye test.
     
  20. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    How about 3/4 of the games? 50% of minutes?

    I have a better idea. Use our analytical and observational abilities and decide who best helps the program now and going forward on an individual basis.

    That will be my rule. You, of course, are welcome to yours.
     
  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    And the rest of us will trust the abilities of people who get paid a lot of money, and have done this their entire lives (top 4 league management), over the keen analytical and observational abilities of freeisland!!!
     
  22. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    I disagree with this. Eye-test matters the most.

    Which is why Trapp should never, ever be in front of Morales. Trapp is so slow and so weak that he simply cannot defend at the international level. The gulf here is massive.

    Bradley reads the game better than Morales. Which is the reason Bradley was the clear choice two years ago. In the two years since then Bradley has fully transformed into a traffic cone.

    The Bradley preference is somewhat defensible. Morales is basically a reaction-dictated player with good tools but no genius for the game.

    But when you see Morales possessing the same long-ball ability and Bradley getting roasted over ten yards of close-control space, Morales is the logical choice.
     
  23. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Sure, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to the way they want to rate players, this is a fan message board after all.

    That said, again, I will trust the guys with more knowledge, experience, and money to pick the best players, vs. your eye test. Especially in this case, where MB is 3-4 years past his sell date but getting called in every time, while Morales starts in a top 3 league and isn't deemed one of our top 40 players.
     
  24. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Cool. Hope it works out for you.

    But that will usually be, of course, a trailing indicator. We can call it the Tim Ream index.
     
  25. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    #125 SpencerNY, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    What’s worse? The Ream index (good for one horrible blunder a game) or the Fabian Johnson index (good but plays like he doesn’t care)? A good late bloomer ala Jay Demerit would be sweet.
     

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