Unfortunately, not possible in America. An old colleague of mine became a #1 FC Union fan over a decade ago and laughed when I brought up a guy from BigSoccer claiming to be a fan of Union who was diametrically opposed to the concept of Promotion/Relegation. My friend made the jumbotron in 2014 and is thrilled to watch his club play its way into the Bundesliga, a goal that seemed unthinkable/impossible ten years ago. #ProRelForUSA https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECbYwd0WwAAAkJQ?format=png&name=small
That's a lovely strawman you've constructed there, Red. Too bad the posters you accuse of being like this aren't here to defend themselves.
It would be great if you and M knew what a "strawman" actually is. I didn't accuse any posters, here or elsewhere, of saying anything. "Defend themselves." Who needs to "defend themselves" against a hypothetical argument?
The website is active and up to date as far as it goes--there's even a countdown clock to an August 31 season opener--but no team information and no schedules. NISA site Don't know if that's a functionality issue or what.
I have no idea and why is it relevant? The point I've been making is that, given the advantages MLS was afforded in its foundation, it would have been perfectly legitimate to have imposed conditions on it - such as a requirement to open itself to pro/rel after a certain time period.
I don't like sweet potatoes. There, I said it. But I don't go to the BigThanksgiving.com forum to piss and moan for YEARS AND YEARS, obsessively browbeating people who really do like sweet potatoes and enthusiastically want them to be on everyone's Thanksgiving table... Says the guy who's attacked my character countless times over the years to the point where I had to put you on IGNORE for weeks and months at a time. Yet you and HTTK have never taken the hint... pity. Oh, that's right... you've compared me to creationists before. I'm enthusiastic about the idea of Promotion/Relegation, while you're obsessed against it. That's it. I live in the buckle of the Bible belt and know the difference between being adamantly in favor of a political issue in American soccer and being a part of a faith based cult... why don't you? You're right it's soccer. And I've been a fan of it longer than you've been alive, sonny boy. I had no use for discussion of Pro/Rel back when there were only 10 or 12 or 14 teams in MLS or back in my teenage years when I was a fan of my local franchise in a highly unstable NASL. I am a fan of several sports, both college and professional, but my passion is for soccer. I only decided to start discussing Pro/Rel as a long term goal for American soccer in general after MLS failed to "pause" at 20 teams like Garber said they would and after it became apparent MLS was going to overexpand past 24 teams to 28 and beyond, which IMO will only further exacerbate the gulf between themselves and a potentially strong USSF D2. IMO the current USSF D2 is too big & watered down but after talking with a couple of the Roughnecks' new owners and some guy named Court from USL last night, they may try to remedy that with some sort of Pro/Rel arrangement rather than what should have happened in the first place: USSF should never have approved all teams in USL Pro to be financially promoted from D3 to D2 with no regards to "sporting merit." FIFA doesn't agree with you. Neither do the overwhelming majority of 1. Union Berlin fans or the entire population of Sheffield. You are now dead to me— Paul Owen (@TheOwensday) August 4, 2019 And guess what? As a free thinking soccer fanatic I (and my fellow American fanatics) have more choices on TV than ever before which empowers me to choose to watch the Blades play Bournemouth last Sat morning while ignoring MLS matches in far better time slots.... and I'm clearly not the only one doing this, so you and @KCbus can save your faux-patriotism for somebody else.... More people watched Bournemouth against Sheffield United on NBCSN than Sunday night's DC United-LA Galaxy and LAFC-RBNY #MLS games COMBINED.#AFCB-#SUFC - 398K viewers#DCU-#LAGalaxy - 158K (FS1)#LAFC-#RBNY - 153K (FS1) pic.twitter.com/BmSlX3raca— World Soccer Talk (@worldsoccertalk) August 13, 2019 Hmmm, I wonder if there's a system that could connect MLS to fans in non-MLS markets who'd love to have their local team in the top American pro league, even if only temporarily based on some reasonably attainable baseline stadium/financial standards and.... sporting merit? But that's right... #ProRelForUSA doesn't "solve" anything except the problem of "too many teams." /sarcasm. Chris Kessell is not a bad person, and certainly not a cultist. IMHO he seems to be young and a bit naive and even occasionally quixotic, but good for him. I think it's wonderful when someone is inspired to challenge the status quo in favor of an issue he cares a great deal about. And I can't blame him for blocking people like you on Twitter and advising me to do the same... it's simple, common sense. There are people far more enthusiastic about Pro/Rel than myself on my twitter feed and people less enthusiastic or it's a complete non-issue for them. We're all still soccer fans. We support in our own ways. A tiny handful of twitterers you'd characterize as cultists I've actually un-followed but, unlike obsessive anti-Pro/Rel trolls, I haven't been forced to block them. And none of them have ever twitter spammed me w random jibberish (like Mr. Loney) or tried to dig up personal info on me or have ever called me by my first name against my wishes. Think about that a minute. I'll wait. On the contrary, I root FOR the success of soccer in the US. MLS is not soccer. MLS is not the be-all-end-all of the sport. Soccer is soccer and it exists in many forms at many levels. I simply believe at this point in our soccer development, American soccer needs to move away from further stratification between divisions and towards a more open system with a goal of achieving an Americanized version of Pro/Rel. It won't be easy, but if nobody's even trying (I'm looking at you, MLS) then the benefits that I see in other countries that have relatively open systems will never happen here. And if I believe that to be the case, I'll take a cue from the overwhelming majority of my fellow American soccer fanatics living in MLS and non-MLS cities and start buying merchandise from clubs that play in foreign soccer leagues... the only thing I have right now is an Everton scarf I won from a local soccer bar a few years ago.... Maybe I'll even buy me a Messi shirt and not watch MLS if I don't feel like it... I mean, I get to decide whether to do that and if you want to attack my patriotism over it, I'll just say.... "Relax, it's just soccer."
Was anyone predicting MLS's trajectory in the 1990s? I don't know that any of the projections were accurate -- either the wildly optimistic ones or the extremely pessimistic ones. The whole business model had to be reworked just to survive. A requirement to open to pro/rel after a certain time period would have been impractical in light of both MLS's near-failure in 2001 and its revival due to stadium investment in the MLS 2.0 era. Perhaps pro/rel triggered by development metrics would have worked better. But keep in mind that even the early pro/rel proposal envisioned pro/rel starting with a 32-team first division and at least 48 teams in a regionalized second division, and we aren't anywhere near there yet. While I'm open to pro/rel in the long run, I would argue that anything fewer than 30 spots in the top division creates a real shortage of first-division places and a situation not unlike that in China where the easiest way to get a first-division club in a city is to buy one and move it.
What the hell are you talking about? If you're a fan of Thanksgiving, you should be on BigThanksgiving.com, and you'd be entitled to state your opinion. But the people who DO like sweet potatoes should be able to say they like them without getting browbeaten by someone calling them trolls. This is BigSoccer. Not BigPromotionRelegation. I have no idea why my name is in your mouth on this one.
I've disagreed with others on the wisdom of starting MLS with Pro/Rel in mind upfront. For me, Rothenburg's single-entity idea was a solution to the problem that killed the NASL, owners going in different directions in the face of the rising popularity of the MISL. It was the solution to a problem of a startup league with too few teams and even fewer owners that could move forward in the same direction. And when they tried to recruit (or merge?) the APSL they were given the cold shoulder. Fewer owners = fewer cats to herd. And some of those cats had some pretty crazy ideas for rule changes to improve a sport perceived to be too low scoring with entirely too many ties to be viable in the US and Canada. USELESS TULSA TRIVIA: I was told a few months ago by someone in the know that a last minute divorce (and divorce settlement) prevented a multi-million dollar project to convert Skelly Stadium (now Chapman Stadium) to grass that kept Tulsa from being included in the original MLS, with Manhattan Construction a more visable partner to build stadiums and Thrifty as the official car rental company of MLS. LOL. That said, your last phrase I most definitely agree with: "...a requirement to open itself to pro/rel after a certain time period." I really never fathomed that MLS would still have single entity like this after 20+ years and especially with over 20 teams in it. The goal was stable, viable local ownership for every individual franchise which I always felt would require eventually weaning themselves off those single entity training wheels.
Your BigSoccer clique's obsession against Pro/Rel for America, that's what. I used to post on a variety of different subjects on this forum. It was only after the usual suspects, a clique of BS's anti-Pro/Rel zealots and their MLS apologist enablers, decided to belittle, ridicule and marginalize me and after you hypocritically banned me from posting on threads that specifically discuss Pro/Rel, that I stopped posting on most other subjects. In protest. Maybe this will jog your memory?
I very much doubt it would have got the required investment if relegation had been a possibility. I think it would have been a much weaker league without investment in stadiums and infrastructure. If MLS stops at 32 we may be able to start talking about how and when after the 2026 World Cup.
I'll defend myself against what I believe to be unfair stereotypes like "Bro/Rel" and continuous false narratives which portray those most enthusiastically in favor of #ProRelForUSA of saying things like: "How can you enjoy a game if you know that the support staff aren't in danger of losing their jobs if the team has a bad season? Clearly, you're a deluded fool who thinks spectator sports aren't a matter of grave moral import."
Thanks. But man, they still need to do some work. No directions or links for the stadiums. That's pretty basic stuff for a website, it doesn't speak well for their organization. But if they do manage to pull off another season, that's something I guess. It's a lot of work to make a league happen. EDIT: Team links work, and all the teams seem to have a functioning, up-to-date site. So credit where due. The nearest team to me is the Fury, though, so I doubt I'll be able to support them this year anyway.
I think 'very much doubt' is hedging your bet. There's zero chance it would have gotten off the ground with that sort of stipulation. Now? Things may be changing.
NISA's web and social media presence has been pretty non-existent from the start. It gets a lot of ridicule from places like and Reddit, but... why would a normal person generally go to a league website? NFL.com would be an exception to this, but I think that's largely driven by fantasy players. Do people go to the Premier League's site or La Liga's? I'm sure they're less half assed than NISA's, but I doubt it's where people go to find Southampton's schedule or whatever. It's also worth pointing out https://nisanation.com/, which seems to be where their real league propaganda/content lives. Their mlssoccer.com, if you will.
This is the type of crap that's so aggravating from some in the pro-P/R camp (and I'll admit some, though a lesser number IMO, from the anti-P/R camp). There's no one way to be a fan. To laugh at how somebody is a fan of their team is ridiculous and arrogant. I see this as different than the Eurosnob/Ameritrash argument, which isn't trying to claim that they aren't real fans of their team, its trying to claim they don't understand what they aren't a fan of.
Talking about a poor media presence, how many MLS fans know they can watch the English language broadcasts of TUDN games on Twitter. 3.5k apparently. Back for the second half with @LAFC up 3-0.#LAFCvSJ // Heineken #RivalryWeek https://t.co/NiT0RK2iUS— Major League Soccer (@MLS) August 22, 2019
It's poor website design. You have to click on the horizontal lines in the upper right to find the content.